Fed: Team has NO legal bats

[biglaz]

You show up at the game site and start your checks of equipment. It is realized that one, or both teams do NOT have any legal bats. What do you do?

I can just see this happening in some of my youth games this year.

[Rich Ives]

Be careful - some groups (like AAU) use FED rules but do NOT use the FED bat rule for 14U down.

[Buckeye12]

Our association told us that if one of the teams do not have a BESR certified bat, kindly ask the other team if they would share at least one bat with the other team during their turn at the plate. If they frown on that, explian to them that the game can not be played if the other team does not have a BESR bat. In Ohio, a game that is not started is considered "no game", not a forfiet. This should make them want to comply. If they refuse to let the opposing team borrow a BESR bat, or if neither team has a BESR bat, the game should not be played due to circumstances (and lawsuits) that may arise. This is also the case with the NOCSAE catcher helmet/mask combinations. There must be at least one helmet/mask that meets this criteria and if not...don't let the game be played (at least while you're there). This is just to cover your a$$ if a player were to be injured. That's what I'm going by.

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by biglaz

]You show up at the game site and start your checks of equipment. It is realized that one, or both teams do NOT have any legal bats. What do you do?

I can just see this happening in some of my youth games this year.

If one team does not have any APPROVED bats then I agree with the other poster who mentioned see if the other team will share.

If both teams do not have APPROVED bats then it's a quick payday and a report to the AD and your assignor as to why the game wasn't played.

Why! If we as officials KNOWINGLY allow a team(s) to use Uncertified equipment or Not meet the regulations set forth in the rules and God forbid something happens we are liable.

I know it's been said that rarely is an umpire held accountable in a courtroom but this would be a case of GROSS NEGLIGANCE and therefore, the plaintiffs would have more weight and a good case.

Another scenario is in the modified division of HS. In our modified division they can use what they call an EP (Extra Player) but NO DH. Therefore, if you as an official allow the use of the DH and something happens again you are liable.

Side Note: In our HS association there is a coaches meeting prior to the beginning of the season and these safety type "things" are brought up so there should not be a case where a team does not have proper equipment.

Pete Booth

[Jerry]

IMO ONLY!!!

If one is concerned about liability and repurcussions, you become ineffective as a professional.

Baseball after all, is a GAME. Research the reasoning behind the BESR ratings, or any of the differing rules in this game, and you'll see why a particular rule or "safeguard" was adopted.

It doesn't alter the fact, that baseball is a GAME.

If all participants, officials included, begin the contest with the understanding that folks are there for purposes of amusement only, there is no problem whatsoever.

If everyone on the field agrees that a branch from a tree can be used for a bat, a sewn-together wad of yarn as a baseball, and someone's borrowed purse as a base . . . who are we to say, "We can't PLAY"?

For God's sake . . . let's "Play Ball" and have some FUN!

I'll agree . . . there are SOME coaches (a few) and SOME parents ("little Johnny's, of course) who want to blame their loss on someone other than their own inabilities. Don't let that happen to you. Have fun; officiate to the best of your ability; and let "kids" (no matter what their age), play the GAME.!

[Buckeye12]

Jerry, what are you going to do when a 15yr old pitcher catches a liner right in the face in a game you're working? Are you going to tell the judge that you let that team play with a bat that is not BESR certified because baseball is just a game? I know that a pitcher can get a liner to the face with a bat that is BESR certified, but at least it wasn't my own neglegence that was a factor in it. I don't believe that excuse would fly too well in court. I understand that's your opinion and I won't be affected by your decisions, but, I am going to be sure that all the bats on my diamand are BESR certified. If this comprimises my effectiveness of an umpire...so be it. It is clearly stated in the rule book to protect the players and I'm going to follow it.

[Tim C]

Please direct me to one case where an umpire has been found at fault for an injury during a baseball game played under FED rules.

I want a 'legal case' NOT something settled out of court.

Thank you.

Tee

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by Jerry

IMO ONLY!!!

If one is concerned about liability and repurcussions, you become ineffective as a professional.

Baseball after all, is a GAME. Research the reasoning behind the BESR ratings, or any of the differing rules in this game, and you'll see why a particular rule or "safeguard" was adopted.

It doesn't alter the fact, that baseball is a GAME.

If all participants, officials included, begin the contest with the understanding that folks are there for purposes of amusement only, there is no problem whatsoever.

If everyone on the field agrees that a branch from a tree can be used for a bat, a sewn-together wad of yarn as a baseball, and someone's borrowed purse as a base . . . who are we to say, "We can't PLAY"?

For God's sake . . . let's "Play Ball" and have some FUN!

I'll agree . . . there are SOME coaches (a few) and SOME parents ("little Johnny's, of course) who want to blame their loss on someone other than their own inabilities. Don't let that happen to you. Have fun; officiate to the best of your ability; and let "kids" (no matter what their age), play the GAME.!

Jerry, first of all I agree with you and that's how WE played when we were kids. We played in the dark, snow, rain etc. We played with a ball until there was literally no more cork left. We played REAL baseball meaning no safety rules. The game took care of itself.

We didn't need 9 players. Whoever showed, showed and we made up rules to fit the number of players we had. You know "sandlot" rules.

However, today is different. The association or at least the association I work in EXPECTS an official to call the game the way the rules are written, especially safety.

Let me give you an example. In our association if there isn't a Fibulator near-by there is no GAME and that was made quite clear to us during our prior meeting. Near-by means within 3-5 minutes reach if you are playing at a School or ON THE PREMISE if you are playing at an "off site"

At the beginning of the season there is a coaches meeting to go over all the RULES, so there should be No problem. Now I think most of us do not follow the Uniform rules "to the hilt". I am not going to tell some kid he /she can't play because they don't have a proper uniform, but if F2 doesn't have "protection" or the proper helmet, throat guard etc. that's where I "draw the line" and I am expected to.

TEE has a good question in "Do we know of some Huge lawsuit out there" not setlled out of court. I personally don't but I don't want to be the first either.

I'm all for letting the kids play within limits.

Pete Booth

[Jerry]

Keep in mind, the opinions expressed early were mine and mine alone. I was intending to equate the BESR requirement in FED with other rules that are specific to FED. (No jewelry, as another example). There are adult teams that supposedly play under the FEDeration Rulebook, and many Recreational Leagues that do the same . . . but specifically allow any type of acceptable bat . . . and the use of jewelry (by adults) . . . and other "modifications" or "allowances" that modify the letter of the FED rulebook.

My point remains . . . allowing the use of another bat, in situations where there are no BESR-Rated ones available, doesn't automatically create a liability for an umpire. As for defense in a possible injury lawsuit, there's nothing that shows the "improper" bat didn't have the same characteristics or safety features or met the same tests as one that has an embossed label or sticker. The other thing that would have to be shown is that the bat was the proximate cause of the injury.

What if the sticker came off in the course of the game? The bat is still just as "safe" or "unsafe" as it was with the sticker affixed.

We play games now with curled up fences, loose bases, "wobbly" chalk lines, discolored and sometimes wet baseballs, "unapproved" baseballs, etc.; and face the same risks and liabilities. Methinks we're making mountains out of molehills by nit-picking whether a bat has an embossment or sticker.

Jerry

[Rog]

Jerry - here is the contact website page for NFHS:
http://www.nfhs.org/nfhscontact.asp
Please contact them ASAP with your interpretation of the 2003 BESR rule, and see if you can get them to modify it immediately. Then get back to us as soon as you have accomplished this so we can incorpaorate your version of the rule into our seasons games.

re: "What if the sticker came off in the course of the game? The bat is still just as "safe" or "unsafe" as it was with the sticker affixed."

With so many bats that look a like, I certainly could never tell for certain which bat that sticker came off; and, whether or not it was legal to be used any further in a game. Untell such time as the NFHS issues another decision on this issue, I will discontinue the use of any such bats.

*************************


Bats with BESR Standard Legal Immediately
in High School Baseball

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Contact: Elliot Hopkins

INDIANAPOLIS, IN (March 22, 2002) — Effective immediately, any bat that meets the Ball Exit Speed Ratio (BESR) performance standard (BESR certification mark on the bat) is legal for high school baseball competition governed by National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS) rules.

In June 2001, the NFHS Baseball Rules Committee voted that all non-wood bats must have the BESR certification mark to be legal for high school baseball, effective January 1, 2003. Since many bats with the BESR standard are already on the market, this interpretation by the NFHS allows those bats to be used in the 2002 high school season.

“When purchasing bats, individuals can now be assured that no matter what materials are used in the bat composition, if it has the BESR certification mark, it is legal,” said Elliot Hopkins, NFHS assistant director and liaison to the Baseball Rules Committee. “Whether the bat composition is titanium, ceramic or whatever, if it has the BESR mark, it can be used immediately.”

Hopkins said that bats with the BESR mark still are not required until January 1, 2003. Bats that are legal by current rules still can be used for the 2002 season; however, all bats must have the BESR mark for the 2003 season.

The BESR mark ensures a maximum exit speed of 97 miles per hour and that the bat has met the moment-of-inertia requirement. In addition, bat rules that were changed for the 2001 season, which are also a part of the BESR standard, have the following requirements: maximum of 2 5/8 inches for the diameter of the bat barrel and a minus-3 differential between the length and weight of the bat (a 33-inch-long bat, for example, cannot weigh less than 30 ounces).

All recent changes in bat requirements have been to minimize the risk of injury to high school student-athletes, and maintain the balance between offense and defense and keep within the sound traditions of the game.

[Jerry]

Rog,
First . . . I prefaced all my replies that these were my opinions only. Whenever I officiate High School games under the NFHS Rules, I require legal equipment to be used.

That said, according to NFHS own admition . . . "All recent changes in bat requirements have been to minimize the risk of injury to high school student-athletes."

Since NFHS is the governing body for High School VARSITY athletics only (i.e. other leagues and levels may choose to adopt any/all of the FED rules and interpretations), officials at those OTHER levels are not obligated to unilaterally enforce that same interpretation regarding BESR requirements.

In all honesty, I seriously doubt it will even be an issue at the HS Varsity level. All coaches and AD's are well-aware of the new equipment requirements. We may very well see adaptations at the JV, Freshman and Summer Federation levels.

And just as an addendum . . . the BESR ratings are only required for non-wood bats. Invariably, someone on the team has a wooden bat.

Jerry

[Jerry]

Rog,
I wasn't disagreeing with NFHS's rulings. In fact, in Michigan (member schools of the MHSAA) are required to use BESR bats at all levels of competition, 7-12 Grades.

NCAA has had that requirement for over 2-years already. Ball State beat Central Michigan in a 12 inning game because back in the 8th inning a CMU batter used a bat where the sticker had either been removed or came off of the bat.

While stickers, provided by bat manufacturers, are acceptable for bats that meet the BESR criteria . . . they must remain affixed and be legible at all times.

My comments and personal opinions were directed toward Recreation Leagues and Summer Fed games; where those leagues may elect to ignore the BESR requirement.

Jerry

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Jerry
IMO ONLY!!!

If one is concerned about liability and repurcussions, you become ineffective as a professional.

Baseball after all, is a GAME. Research the reasoning behind the BESR ratings, or any of the differing rules in this game, and you'll see why a particular rule or "safeguard" was adopted.

It doesn't alter the fact, that baseball is a GAME.

If all participants, officials included, begin the contest with the understanding that folks are there for purposes of amusement only, there is no problem whatsoever.

If everyone on the field agrees that a branch from a tree can be used for a bat, a sewn-together wad of yarn as a baseball, and someone's borrowed purse as a base . . . who are we to say, "We can't PLAY"?

For God's sake . . . let's "Play Ball" and have some FUN!

I'll agree . . . there are SOME coaches (a few) and SOME parents ("little Johnny's, of course) who want to blame their loss on someone other than their own inabilities. Don't let that happen to you. Have fun; officiate to the best of your ability; and let "kids" (no matter what their age), play the GAME.!

Jerry, the next time we umpire together remind me that I am the UIC because if both teams do not have any legal bats, we are not playing baseball that day. If you are the UIC, you will be umpiring the game by yourself, because I will not be party to a game where the UIC deliberately allows the game to be played with unsafe equipment.

MTD, Sr.

[jicecone]

Jerry,

Somehow you believe that the participants of this Forum will give you permission to ignor the rules of your choosing, whatever League you are officiating.

My best advice to you is to consult with your attorney that may be representing you. If he tells you to do whatever you feel like. GO FOR IT.

This is a very litigious world out there, but if you choose to ignor that as an official or feel that others will give you permission to ignor it, then by all means, GO FOR IT.

"If everyone on the field agrees that a branch from a tree can be used for a bat, a sewn-together wad of yarn as a baseball, and someone's borrowed purse as a base . . . who are we to say, "We can't PLAY"?"

You right it is only a game. But if every time someone decides to play the game and changes the rules to thier liking for that game, Then we have CHAOS.

But once again, check with your attorney, most Professional's do.

[Rog]

You don't need to add anything for my benefit. I am pretty certain of how the issue should be handled, and would not even remotely consider your approach. So please forget I even exist and I will do the same with your advise.