LLWS and replay

[Rich]

Originally Posted by biggravy

First, not being a troll. I would like a serious discussion.

Second. I have many, many other problems with the umpire system in LLWS.

Now, what is the point in even having umpires? Why don't we just let someone in a replay booth call everything? Now that may sound rediculous, but in the games I've watched with my son replay is waaaaaay overused. In one game they returned from a commercial break and were complementing the PU for going to the replay on a play at the plate WITHOUT THE COACH EVEN CHALLENGING. Are you serious? Why not just call time and go find out?

I see why they have replay though since we have seen some obviously terrible, terrible calls. Getting on my soapbox here, but I don't fell LLWS thinks much of their umpires anyway thus the major replays. None of us do this for the money but as has been said before here, our time has got to be worth something. Unless it has changed since a buddy of mine did LLWS a few years ago they are not paid. Feel free to correct me if it has changed. Maybe partly becasue of the lack of pay we see some absolutely terrible positioning and mechanics leading to these bad calls. We are talking about rookie camp level stuff here like plate mechanics, the guy who took the banger at the plate from up the 3BL (not 3BLE) but actually up the line, and my favorite the pitcher fielding the bunt on 1BL who muffed it and tripped the runner where the PU just froze and 1BU called the pitcher for interference. Wow. I say respect what your umpires are worth, pay them a nominal fee to cover expenses, and maybe just maybe we don't need to review every stinking call. Rant off.

I won't even bother to get into the selection process or the mistakes made. We've all seen the umpiring. But I think the money/pay is a red herring.

The money has virtually nothing to do with it. Some expenses are covered. They are given a per diem for meals and I know some districts reimburse gas money. All are put up in their own hotel rooms at the series, too.

I got money from the District to cover my fuel costs (I drove to Maine). I got a hotel room (where my family stayed the entire week). I got 2 meals a day covered. I looked at it as a subsidized vacation.

[LMan]

I agree with Rich. Pay isn't the main issue, its the selection criteria (or lack of same). Implement a rigorous, merit-based selection process that brings the best to Williamsport, and the best will aspire to get there regardless of pay.

But, apparently too many LL lifers have to be paid off with a Williamsport trip because of their decades of service. That model worked in the past, but when the only aspect of the LLWS that remains stuck in the 1970s is the umpiring, something needs to change. When replay continually overturns on-field calls, it gets harder and harder to ignore.

Speaking of which, that umpire that charged in and killed a fair ball hitting the 3B bag was a doozy. I bet he wished there was a hole he could climb into...even my daughter said that that should be made into a "Wanna Get Away?" Southwest Airlines commercial

[Rich]

Originally Posted by LMan

Speaking of which, that umpire that charged in and killed a fair ball hitting the 3B bag was a doozy. I bet he wished there was a hole he could climb into...even my daughter said that that should be made into a "Wanna Get Away?" Southwest Airlines commercial

That umpire worked in the minor leagues and works D-1 baseball.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

That umpire worked in the minor leagues and works D-1 baseball.

So? Plenty of guys get into the minors over superior competition because the have pleasing personalities and don't carry the legal and ethical baggage PBUC abhors. Same in D1 and the NCAA.

Umpiring is not a strict meritocracy at any level, so LL is no different. World Series assignments at every level are as much about personal relationships and representing the sanctioning body the way it wants to be represented as about competence, which typically has to be only acceptable.

Working pro ball or D1 is not prima facie evidence of excellence.

[UmpJM]

Publius,

Originally Posted by Publius

...

Working pro ball or D1 is not prima facie evidence of excellence.

While it is not conclusive evidence, it is, in fact, prima facie evidence.

I would have expected a Roman such as yourself to know that.

JM

[Publius]

Maybe to those who don't pay close attention.

[THoy]

Originally Posted by Publius

So? Plenty of guys get into the minors over superior competition because the have pleasing personalities and don't carry the legal and ethical baggage PBUC abhors. Same in D1 and the NCAA.

Umpiring is not a strict meritocracy at any level, so LL is no different. World Series assignments at every level are as much about personal relationships and representing the sanctioning body the way it wants to be represented as about competence, which typically has to be only acceptable.

Working pro ball or D1 is not prima facie evidence of excellence.

I do not work D-1. Have worked in the minors. Love to hear more about PBUC from you and compare experiences. Do not claim to be the best...just do what I can. Again, I think the philosophy of Little League Baseball and the manner in which it is implemented are misunderstood.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

That umpire worked in the minor leagues and works D-1 baseball.

Helluva brain fart, then.

[David B]

Originally Posted by LMan

Helluva brain fart, then.

Honestly, he was probably bored silly. Six umpires, you don't get to call anything all game, suddenly, something happens.

Happens to most all of us sometime or another.

If he's used to kids that shave, this game must have been a crawler.

Thanks
David

[njdevs00cup]

I took my son to watch the LLWS games last Friday. One of things we both noticed was that during the conference to see if another umpire had a better view, fans around us were receiving texts and phone calls regarding the play in question from people watching the game on TV. The fans at home have already seen the slow motion replay and know the result. Fans were yelling to the manager to challenge calls.

Six umpires is way too many for a small diamond game. We saw umpires almost getting hit by throws, getting in the way of fielders and almost contacting base runners. It sounds like all of the umpires have a great deal of experience, however I don't know how many six man crews they get to work with prior to umpiring the LLWS.

[MD Longhorn]

The idea that lack of pay does not affect the quality of umpires is really rather silly. Sure, there are exceptions - Rich being one. But when you don't pay from the very beginning... a vast majority of the umpires who care enough to work at the vocation will migrate to where they can make some money. Thus, the pool of people that LL has to choose from is inherently of less quality than the pool of umpires in general.

One would think that they STILL have enough good umpires to pull from - and perhaps the selection process is an additional hindrance. But the INITIAL problem is the lack of pay.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Six umpires is way too many for a small diamond game. We saw umpires almost getting hit by throws, getting in the way of fielders and almost contacting base runners.

I don't necessarily disagree that six is too many. But, let's say we dumped the two guys standing in the outfield twiddeling their thumbs most of the game. How would that have any bearing on the other four "almost getting hit by throws, getting in the way of fielders and almost contacting base runners"?

[zm1283]

I don't work on small diamonds, but I would think three umpires would be enough for any LL game. If three can handle NCAA games and MiLB games, I think three can handle 12 year-olds.

[biggravy]

Let's just go with one to keep the game moving and they can review every call and flash the correct call on the scoreboard. Maybe we can put a clicker in every seat so the crowd can vote? Sort of a "poll the audience". We can give the coaches 3 polls per game. Get the crowd more involved. Then we can have more debates about the "expected" call vs. the "correct" call!

[njdevs00cup]

Originally Posted by BretMan

I don't necessarily disagree that six is too many. But, let's say we dumped the two guys standing in the outfield twiddeling their thumbs most of the game. How would that have any bearing on the other four "almost getting hit by throws, getting in the way of fielders and almost contacting base runners"?

BretMan, I can see your point because the base umpires were the umpires getting in the way, not the line umpires. Eye contact and communication between umpires is very important, especially when working with larger crews. This may take longer when the crew members are not familiar with each other or the six man system. That, along with the small field confines made it look like it was difficult to potentially make a call and get inside while avoiding incoming throws, runners and fielders.