LL All Stars & Travel Team Question

[APG]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The state of Wisconsin has pitching limits for HS baseball. It's made clear to the coaches that umpires are neither expected to know the rules nor try to enforce them at the field. Therefore, I make no effort to know these rules.

I'm guessing it's the same in many states. I have no idea how many innings the pitcher threw earlier in the week and I don't care.

LL is different. I know who is ineligible to pitch before the game starts since the tourney I'm working is ringfenced.

This comes from the basketball side but it's similar...many states have limits to how many quarters a player can play at the varsity level (mainly for players who play on both the JV and varsity level). In no way are we expected to enforce this limit...even if for some reason we know a player was about to go over the limit (say if the officials were working a JV/V doubleheader). If the opposing coach brings this to our attention, we are to treat the substitution/participation as legal as they have broken no actual substitution rules.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Rich you're so full of crap it is hard to give you any credit about anything other than Ratdom.

NFHS does not set pitch limits or even innings pitched.

You example of keeping "tabs on subs" is just another patehic attempt at proving your point.

There is no chance that any umpire needs to know this crap.

Yep.

LL baseball is a big enough farce, then they decided to add their insane instant replay rule to the LLWS. Now it's just a laughing stock.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Well - if you followed any of the LL boards or participated in LL instead of bashing it you'd see a LOT of LL umpires who are also LL officials and who rule on such issues.

Well, if you remember, I spent my first 5 years umpiring LL until there was an opening on the local HS board. In my day, I was known as a "Plate Man" to you younger umpires a plate man is a sucker who does 4 to 5 games on a Saturday behind the plate because the UIC feels comfortable with him there. umpired sectionals, regionals and all stars. That was almost 40 years ago and I see that crap still goes on. I also saw 2 kids through LL baseball & softball in the 1990's.

Through the years I have seen LL go from a decent organization to a bloated farce that tries to oversee the game with idiotic rules generated by stupid BOD's and parents who cannot understand that not everyone gets to play in life and life is not fair! LL is far from what it is supposed to be. Hell, when I played LL if the coach sat you, you stayed on the bench until called. There was no complaining by the player or parents because that's the way it worked.

I was there, Rich, so if I tell you it sucks, I am telling you the truth and at almost 60 yrs old, I am not changing my tune for you or anyone.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by PirateMike1973

Tim C - if that's the most appropriate comment you can add, please be advised that it wasn't constructive and insulting.

Insulting? Good! I think that was the point.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

This is an officiating board. Since when are the only officials at a game umpires?

Then the real problem here seems to be the name of the forum. It should not imply that administrative minutia should be discussed as well as real life situations that come up during sporting events.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I was there, Rich, so if I tell you it sucks, I am telling you the truth and at almost 60 yrs old, I am not changing my tune for you or anyone.

Wait, wait WAIT A MINUTE, HERE!

Oz, you're not even 60, and you're that grumpy already. I swear, you rant like a guy pushing 80. I've always played nice, 'cause I thought I was dealing with an elder. Hell, I'm about as old as you are. So stop tellin' war stories, kid, you're not that old.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I was there, Rich, so if I tell you it sucks, I am telling you the truth and at almost 60 yrs old, I am not changing my tune for you or anyone.

I'll be 67 in a couple of weeks so don't try that "old and wise" bit with me.

I started in LL in 1974. Did NOT leave after 5 years. You can work to keep things "in order" or run away and whine. You made your choice. I made mine.

So at what age should humans have to start fending for themselves versus just being in learn mode about things? Do we throw kids out of school because they aren't learning as fast as others? Should we? "Sorry kid - 3.0+ or hit the streets"!

You want competition, go elsewhere. LL is designed to let everyone play.

"Different" and "Wrong" are not synonyms.

[MD Longhorn]

Leaving an organization that is a mess is not running away. Telling others of the mess when that organization comes up in conversation is not whining.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Leaving an organization that is a mess is not running away. Telling others of the mess when that organization comes up in conversation is not whining.

REALLY?

You can stay and work to fix it or leave. But leaving isn't running away?

Bad mouthing it instead of trying to fix it is OK? Why?

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

I'll be 67 in a couple of weeks so don't try that "old and wise" bit with me.

I started in LL in 1974. Did NOT leave after 5 years. You can work to keep things "in order" or run away and whine. You made your choice. I made mine.

So at what age should humans have to start fending for themselves versus just being in learn mode about things? Do we throw kids out of school because they aren't learning as fast as others? Should we? "Sorry kid - 3.0+ or hit the streets"!

You want competition, go elsewhere. LL is designed to let everyone play.

"Different" and "Wrong" are not synonyms.

I really don't give a crap how old you are and I did not "run". Several of us tried to hang on and teach but when you are not wanted, you do not hang around. I moved on to real baseball at higher levels.

You see, LL is just like anything else on this board, Rich. There are those who like it and those that do not. I happen to be one that does not and I will express my opinion any damn time I feel like it. All I was saying is that I was there - I am not one who just bashes without knowing. And as far as that "everyone plays - no competition" crap..... yeah - go to any LL field and watch a game and tell me there is no competition between the teams, the parents, the coaches and then there is All Stars. Maybe in your little corner of NY State it all works wonderfully but it doesn't work that way from what I have seen. Please continue to revolve in your little realm, I will remain umpiring and teaching umpires doing real baseball.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I really don't give a crap how old you are and I did not "run". Several of us tried to hang on and teach but when you are not wanted, you do not hang around. I moved on to real baseball at higher levels.

You see, LL is just like anything else on this board, Rich. There are those who like it and those that do not. I happen to be one that does not and I will express my opinion any damn time I feel like it. All I was saying is that I was there - I am not one who just bashes without knowing. And as far as that "everyone plays - no competition" crap..... yeah - go to any LL field and watch a game and tell me there is no competition between the teams, the parents, the coaches and then there is All Stars. Maybe in your little corner of NY State it all works wonderfully but it doesn't work that way from what I have seen. Please continue to revolve in your little realm, I will remain umpiring and teaching umpires doing real baseball.

Of course there's competition. But it's really about how many throats get cut doing it that's the issue. Knives don't belong in youth sports. Kids deserve the chance tp PLAY and develop, not get tossed aside at 8 or whatever. Most people understand that kids develop at different rates and that until 15 or 16 you really don't know how an athlete will end up.

The other problem is within the local organization (whether LL, Ripken, Dixie, Babe Ruth, PONY, or whatever) not the national group. You can find good and bad groups under any of the various flags. So if you want to bash - bash your local league - they are (or were) the proiblem.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I really don't give a crap how old you are and I did not "run". Several of us tried to hang on and teach but when you are not wanted, you do not hang around. I moved on to real baseball at higher levels.

You see, LL is just like anything else on this board, Rich. There are those who like it and those that do not. I happen to be one that does not and I will express my opinion any damn time I feel like it. All I was saying is that I was there - I am not one who just bashes without knowing. And as far as that "everyone plays - no competition" crap..... yeah - go to any LL field and watch a game and tell me there is no competition between the teams, the parents, the coaches and then there is All Stars. Maybe in your little corner of NY State it all works wonderfully but it doesn't work that way from what I have seen. Please continue to revolve in your little realm, I will remain umpiring and teaching umpires doing real baseball.

I work as much HS and Legion and adult baseball as I want, so I have a perspective on "real" baseball. Little League is still baseball, no matter how much you and people like you try to put it down. I'm proud of my association with Little League and for every time you continue to bash it, I'm happy to be around to tell you and everyone else here how much joy I've gotten by being involved with the local district and with the people I've met across the country.

[kylejt]

LL is only as good as the local folks bustin' their *** at the local level.

The park I work at isn't perfect, but it's pretty close. Run by the book by a pretty hard working core of people. You'd be hard pressed to find a better place for kids to play ball.

To the north of us it's not like that at all. Hell, one league wants to leave LL altogether, and go to PONY. (They got bent out of shape because they got excluded from a post season tourney. Not paying district dues, and not attending meetings will do that). So they blame LL for not letting their kids play. Oh yeah, and their treasurer did time for grabbing $40K. Oh wait, that was the league on the south of us.

To our east and west, the play PONY. For years they've struggled to produce good high school players. And this has zero to do with the rule set, or field size. They just have poor organizations, and even worse coaches. It's that simple. Oh yeah, they're leading off, and calling balks at 9, but it doesn't seem to making a difference at age 14.

Look, LL, PONY, Dixie, Ripken, etc., it just doesn't matter what patch the kids wear on their shoulders. They're all only as good as the folks willing to step forward and make their organization work.

Oh, and "real" baseball is played at 90 feet, with wood bats, metal cleats, beer in the stands and rules that let you steamroll the catcher. Everything else is compromise for age and ability.