LL All Stars & Travel Team Question

[SanDiegoSteve]

Yeah, not so much an umpire question.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Yeah, not so much an umpire question.

It is a rules question.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

It is a rules question.

Out of curiousity: Is it a rule enforced by umpires, or is it an "administrative" rule enforced by others? Are LL umpires really expected to have the knowledge and records to handle this issue?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Ump153

Out of curiousity: Is it a rule enforced by umpires, or is it an "administrative" rule enforced by others? Are LL umpires really expected to have the knowledge and records to handle this issue?

It is a rules question, only in the sense that it isn't in the playing rules, and has everything to do with a league president or tournament director's job, and nothing at all to do with an umpire's job. I believe that is the reason for the so-called "vitriol."

Let me ask this then (to all): Is this the proper forum in which to table and discuss subjects that are completely unrelated to umpiring?

[PirateMike1973]

First, thank you Rich for "coming to my defense", so to speak.
Second, you only need to look at today's thread list to see that that are several posts NOT related to just umpiring (in the purest sense).
Third, I'm not sure why some people felt the need to respond in the manner that they did, simply because I was asking for the community's opinion/consensus/knowledge on what is a RULES question, maybe an admin one, but a rules question, none the less. (Again, thank you Rich for your input)
And lastly, if this forum is a "just for umpires" exclusive club, than I will only ask this type of question other places & limit questions here to "on the field" questions.

I have volunteered in our LL for over 15 years as a coach and now, as an official game scorekeeper and announcer. I not sure why someone would think a question related to LL is an area for "derision".

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by PirateMike1973

I have volunteered in our LL for over 15 years as a coach and now, as an official game scorekeeper and announcer. I not sure why someone would think a question related to LL is an area for "derision".

I can answer that. The collective memory here is of LL parents/fans/scorekeepers coming to the forum to ask questions that have nothing to do with umpiring or officiating a game. Over the years, that breeds frustration and impatience. The new guy who shows up with what he thinks is a great question for umpires gets dumped on and can't understand why.

Not many folks here work LL or indeed much baseball at all with players who don't shave. The few who do are quite knowledgeable and can provide answers to most questions, as you've seen.

[PirateMike1973]

Again to both Richs, I thank you.

mb- i totally get where you're coming from on some people's memories of LL parents etc., and our league is not perfect by any means, but I ask you: are the leagues above LL immune to the same issues? When my son played Babe Ruth level and tried out for his HS team we found those too to contain politics, bad parent behavior and coaches with pre-conceived ideas of who played when/where and not based on tryouts and practices. I submit to you that until you get to the college level "daddyball" and politics still play an integral part in the those leagues above LL and until you get to college.

Also, just as a note; I would stack up our LL's umpires with the Legion and HS umpires in our area any day of the week.

(Sorry if this post to "mb's" comment doesn't meet some purist's standards.)

[frozenrope22]

I am often amazed that people will pose a question on a non relevant web site rather than go straight to the source. In this case contact Little League directly:
Travel Teams

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Ump153

Out of curiousity: Is it a rule enforced by umpires, or is it an "administrative" rule enforced by others? Are LL umpires really expected to have the knowledge and records to handle this issue?

It's administrative. But it's also a question about the eligibility of the player to participate in a game.

Yes - a good LL umpire should know the all rules.

The umpires won't have the records - but in this case there are no records involved. FYI, in the tournament the team manager carries the records and the TD at the site (no one else) can examine them if there's an issue.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

It's administrative. But it's also a question about the eligibility of the player to participate in a game.

Yes - a good LL umpire should know the all rules.

About whether a team can play travel ball and all stars? There's no way I'd possibly have to deal with this situation, so what's the point in an umpire knowing this?

After doing the coaches meetings for our district tournaments last night, I wish the coaches knew some basic playing rules. Doesn't a good coach know these?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

About whether a team can play travel ball and all stars? There's no way I'd possibly have to deal with this situation, so what's the point in an umpire knowing this?

Really?

Manager comes to you with a sub. You announce it. Opposing manager comes to you and says "That sub can't play because he's on a travel team".

So you can either know the rule (actually the lack of one) and it's history and tell him OR you can just stand there with a blank look and then call the TD.

Either way, you're dealing with it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Really?

Manager comes to you with a sub. You announce it. Opposing manager comes to you and says "That sub can't play because he's on a travel team".

So you can either know the rule (actually the lack of one) and it's history and tell him OR you can just stand there with a blank look and then call the TD.

Either way, you're dealing with it.

Either way, he's not going to be happy with an umpire and will protest up the chain. Likely such a protest would end up with the region, regardless of my knowledge.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Really?

Manager comes to you with a sub. You announce it. Opposing manager comes to you and says "That sub can't play because he's on a travel team".

So you can either know the rule (actually the lack of one) and it's history and tell him OR you can just stand there with a blank look and then call the TD.

Either way, you're dealing with it.

I'm saying, "Not my position to rule on it" and I'm letting the kid play. I will note that he played, and if asked later will say that he played and some one in charge of administrative rules can determine the legality and penalty, if any.

[Tim C]

Rich you're so full of crap it is hard to give you any credit about anything other than Ratdom.

NFHS does not set pitch limits or even innings pitched.

You example of keeping "tabs on subs" is just another patehic attempt at proving your point.

There is no chance that any umpire needs to know this crap.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

It is a rules question.

And when is the last time you saw an umpire rule on this problem?