2-man crew correct procedure.

[brer rabbit]

My first post here please take it easy on me. In a recent 13u travel playoff game I was in the c position with a runner on third. The batter bunts through the pitch and the runner on third is way off third expecting the sucessful bunt. As he tries to get back he stumbles but eventually obtains the base. the snap throw from the catcher was in time for a tag to be applied before the runner returned safely but from my perspective I was unable to see a tag as I was obstructed by the 3rd baseman. Not sure of the correct procedure I immediately pointed to my partner at home and stated "I need help, I couldnt see a tag". My partner immediately called the runner safe. Should I have just called time and huddled up to get the call right or is what I did acceptable?

[SanDiegoSteve]

You really need to get this one yourself. Live or die with the call you make. If you could not see a tag due to being screened out, then you have to call the runner safe. From C position, you have a superb angle to call that play, so don't lay it on the plate guy. He is looking right up the runner's as$ on the play. Take charge and make the call. Definitely DO NOT call Time and huddle up before making a call. Make your call, and then if everyone goes ballistic on you, consider asking your partner at this point.

[ozzy6900]

Never point to your partner:

1. Looking for a bail out on a call you should be getting.
2. Shouting across the diamond for help.

As Steve stated, this is your call so you must get into position or call what you see. If you see the tag call it. If you do not see the tag you must call safe. Now if you are in the C position, all you have to do for this call is take 2 steps toward the 3rd bas foul line and you are in position. Don't try to take this call from C as you will be looking up the a$$ end of the play as Steve stated. I teach umpires to imagine a 45 foot line on the 3rd base side and head for it (2 steps from C) so they are in position to see the tag and/or touch of 3rd. From this position it looks like you are close to the play so you get very little flack from the coaches, also.

[jicecone]

Ozzy is absolutely right. From your description of the play you became a stationary official and therefore got blocked out. You have to anticipate what is going to happen and get in position for it. In the C position. I always head 2-3 steps towards HP while following the ball to the bag, open up to the right and have a excellent view of 3b. Pretty close to what Oz is telling you.

This is the part of officiating that is similar to playing the game. When I coached I would always tell the players that on every play you have to be thinking what your going to do for different scenarios. Its the same way when officiating. Read and react. There are only three things that should not move on a baseball diamond when a ball is hit. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

[lawump]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Never point to your partner:

1. Looking for a bail out on a call you should be getting.
2. Shouting across the diamond for help.

As Steve stated, this is your call so you must get into position or call what you see. If you see the tag call it. If you do not see the tag you must call safe. Now if you are in the C position, all you have to do for this call is take 2 steps toward the 3rd bas foul line and you are in position. Don't try to take this call from C as you will be looking up the a$$ end of the play as Steve stated. I teach umpires to imagine a 45 foot line on the 3rd base side and head for it (2 steps from C) so they are in position to see the tag and/or touch of 3rd. From this position it looks like you are close to the play so you get very little flack from the coaches, also.

I agree with everything you have posted. I will also add that for any of this to work, one must actually start in the "C". I find too many inexperienced umpires that seem to stand anywhere but in the correct "C" position (or "B" for that matter). They start too deep or too far to one side or the other. I suspect that if the original poster was obstructed by the third baseman as the tag attempt was being made, he was starting too deep. Just a guess.

[waltjp]

Okay, Brer. Others have stated that this is your call. They're right.

Now let me ask you, what can you do next time to put yourself in a better position to make this call?

You can learn from this situation.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by lawump

I agree with everything you have posted. I will also add that for any of this to work, one must actually start in the "C". I find too many inexperienced umpires that seem to stand anywhere but in the correct "C" position (or "B" for that matter). They start too deep or too far to one side or the other. I suspect that if the original poster was obstructed by the third baseman as the tag attempt was being made, he was starting too deep. Just a guess.

Absolutely! You have no idea how many evaluations I did this HS season where our younger (time on the board) umpires are standing almost on the dirt in B & C. When I meet with them after the game to discuss their evaluations, I make it a point of showing them where they were standing as opposed to where they should be!

[THoy]

Really if "c" position is the third base side of the mound on a line from the plate through the 3rd base edge of the pitchers circle, and on that line halfway between 2nd base and the backside of the mound, you should already pretty much be in position. But, two steps towards third base would put you in better position. You should be moving anywhere until you know where the play is headed.

[UmpJM]

THoy,

1. Halfway between 2B and the pitcher's plate (not the back of the mound).

2. Two steps toward the mid-point of the HP-3B line (not directly toward 3B).

JM

[MrUmpire]

"C" should not be conisdered a fixed spot. There are various game situatons and demonstrated abilities and tendencies of players that will cause adjustment forward and backward and, to a lesser degree, right to left.

Once in "C", realize that it is a starting point. Base umpiring is a dynamic activity.

[kylejt]

Sometimes #@% happens out there on the field. As other have said, that's your call, and never point to someone else.

So make your best guess, if you're blocked out, and let the managers do their job. If they come straight to you (after requesting TIME), then consider going to your partner, if they ask in a decent manner.

If everyone follows the proper proecedures and protocols, things run pretty smoothly. It's when we deviate that we catch hell.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

THoy,

1. Halfway between 2B and the pitcher's plate (not the back of the mound).

2. Two steps toward the mid-point of the HP-3B line (not directly toward 3B).

JM

2 is more appropriate for a steal of 3rd. Generally, on a tag play, you need an angle to the runner's path to the base. A runner returning to 3rd from HP requires a different angle than one approaching from 2nd base. Heading toward the mid-point of the baseline reduces the desired angle on the former.

[THoy]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

"C" should not be conisdered a fixed spot. There are various game situatons and demonstrated abilities and tendencies of players that will cause adjustment forward and backward and, to a lesser degree, right to left.

Once in "C", realize that it is a starting point. Base umpiring is a dynamic activity.

Correct. Thank You.