Old Ground, New situation

[jkumpire]

Hi folks, need your assistance. Please note, cross-posted on Umpire-Empire.

Midwestern college wood bat league, pretty good quality of play. R1, 1 out, count doesn't matter. LH batter swings at inside pitch, gets a piece, F2 comes up in my view and blocks me out, and the next time I see the ball it's rolling down the 1B line a pretty good clip.

I look the batter, he gives no sign or expression of the ball hitting his foot on leg. He takes 2 steps up the line, stops, and the manager in the 3B box starts yelling "it hit him, foul ball". I didn't blink, but I had no view of the play.

I let the play end, killed the ball and went to my partner immediately. I asked him "Did you see the ball hit the batter's foot?" His answer was in essence, "No I didn't".

I turned around called the out, and got an earful from the offense HC, which was expected. They were winning 6-0 at the time, and won 7-0, but I am troubled by the play. My question: If you are blocked and can't see the ball hit the ground, obviously you look to see what the batter does, but if he gives nothing away do you call it foul based only on the reaction of the ball?

I ask because the dirt immediately around the plate was soft, as opposed to the rest of the dirt circle around the rest of the plate, so a ball could act like it hit a foot, but it didn't. I had no foul ball, my partner had no foul ball, we have an out.

What say you? and ask for any other information about it I can give you.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

My question: If you are blocked and can't see the ball hit the ground, obviously you look to see what the batter does, but if he gives nothing away do you call it foul based only on the reaction of the ball?

You can't call what you don't see. The batter didn't help his cause, either.

I had the exact same situation last week, only I was the BU. I didn't see the ball hit the batter. After hitting the ball, the batter began running down the line like nothing happened. PU and I got together and both agreed that we didn't see the ball hit the batter. The OC taught his batter a lesson: If it hits you, act like it hit you -- it's easier for them to make the call.

I wouldn't admit it to a coach, but some of these calls are based on the actions of the players. An additional one is the pitch that may or may not have hit the dirt on strike three. The actions of the catcher will sometimes determine whether we think it hit the ground or not.

[jicecone]

This is just as bad as reversing your call. No matter what happens you end up looking bad in someone's mind. Usually, when a player takes off for first it because he realizes the ball was fair and he better get moving. Usually. depending upon the level of ball.

I think it was Derek Jeter that faked getting hit by the ball last year and got on base. I used to tell players all the time, hop around or act like your in pain if you get hit but, don't start running because I am assuming you thought it was fair and are trying to beat it out.

Just about anyway you rule on something you don't see though, makes you look bad. Thats comes with the job.

[bob jenkins]

Perhaps the toughest call we make. Frequently missed (either way) in MLB. And coaches, if they were being honest about this, would admit that they can't tell sometimes either and just argue whichever side supports their team.

I've often thought that the rule should change so that it's NOT a foul ball -- the ball remains in play and becomes fair or foul based on what happens next.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I've often thought that the rule should change so that it's NOT a foul ball -- the ball remains in play and becomes fair or foul based on what happens next.

Ah, if umpires wrote the rules...

[kylejt]

And when a manager asks me to get help on a play like this, I always say no. If the BU saw it, he would have killed it right away. No need to go to the BU, if they're doing their job properly.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by kylejt

And when a manager asks me to get help on a play like this, I always say no. If the BU saw it, he would have killed it right away. No need to go to the BU, if they're doing their job properly.

Another, less negative response to consider: "I already did, coach."