Home plate appeal costs HS Conn team Championship.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Sometimes Mike you're just wrong in how officiating is done in the modern age.

I have been taught for many, many moons that preventive officiating is not only accepted but it clearly defines the top officials from the "almost" top officials.

Quietly reminding a pitcher that he needs to "pause better" when you are a base umpire, telling post men in basketball to quit pushing on each other while trying to gain position, or assiting a wide reciever to line up legally in a football game are not coaching.

Telling players to stay back on the grass as a runner scores is not coaching it is asking that the players respect you in doing your job.

T

I've heard very similar words from Rich Fetchiet, Dave Yeast and Nick Zibelli and I teach the same.

[pastordoug]

I'm curious now.....
Mike, have you EVER moved a bat out of the way on a play at home?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by pastordoug

I'm curious now.....
Mike, have you EVER moved a bat out of the way on a play at home?

Oh dear God I hope not.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Oh dear God I hope not.

LOTS of umpirs do that at all levels.

[MikeStrybel]

The CWS umpires are miked for the series. Anyone want to bet that they are coaching like top officials in the modern era? Talk with Jim Evans, Joe Brinkman, Tim Tschida or Gerry Davis about whether they offer 'helpful advice' in the guise of going unnoticed. I have.

For what it's worth, don't bring up other sports when discussing what is acceptable in baseball umpiring.

A quick review of this forum shows a tendency for dismissing opinions that cannot be corroborated by a manual of merit. Yet, when discussing the idea of helping a team/player gain an advantage through umpire interjection I find no such support. Hmmmm.

There is a school of thought that allows umpires to guide the game, making it easier to handle impending problems. I understand the need for that and have partaken. I work hard not to do it any more. This reminds me of the 'get the call right' mentality that so many fought a decade ago. They ridiculed conferences, changing plays and instant replay. The contention was that the game allows umpires to do certain things and sometimes they are wrong. That mentality has changed and the very best accept that they are there to make the tough calls and eat crow occassionally for the greater good of the game. Calls are scrutinized more, as is umpire behavior. I provided a very real situation where a coach called me on warning players from breaking the rules. I told it to support the idea that we should not coach, even if it makes us disappear out there. Yes, I believe a lot of it has to do with ratings and approval from the powers that be. It is far easier to tell a catcher that his pitcher is balking rather than simply call it and deal with upset players, coaches and fans. If that is how you teach or umpire, okay, good for you. I try not to do that. Sometimes I forget or get lazy, but by and large I try to just call what I see. If that means a coach will get upset, so be it. I would rather have a coach pissed because I balked his pitcher than to have him confront me because I just cut the other team an illegal break by coaching.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

The CWS umpires are miked for the series. Anyone want to bet that they are coaching like top officials in the modern era? Talk with Jim Evans, Joe Brinkman, Tim Tschida or Gerry Davis about whether they offer 'helpful advice' in the guise of going unnoticed. I have.

For what it's worth, don't bring up other sports when discussing what is acceptable in baseball umpiring.

I totally disagree about not bringing in other sports, because most top officials I know work other or have at one time. And this is not just a baseball only philosophy where preventive officiating or umpiring is used. And finally this complete comparison to pro umpires is totally different. We are not the pros. They have a lot of things they would never have to deal with and things they do we never have to deal with. I honestly in most cases do not care what pro guys do because if I handled myself they do at the college and HS level, I might not be working very long.

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

A quick review of this forum shows a tendency for dismissing opinions that cannot be corroborated by a manual of merit. Yet, when discussing the idea of helping a team/player gain an advantage through umpire interjection I find no such support. Hmmmm.

You keep talking about the Manual, but I have never read in any manual how to look in your uniform or to have it looked pressed and or what mask to use which we often talk about here. Also in Illinois we do not use any Manual (at least not from the NF) so I have no idea what that says or care what it says.

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

There is a school of thought that allows umpires to guide the game, making it easier to handle impending problems. I understand the need for that and have partaken. I work hard not to do it any more. This reminds me of the 'get the call right' mentality that so many fought a decade ago. They ridiculed conferences, changing plays and instant replay. The contention was that the game allows umpires to do certain things and sometimes they are wrong. That mentality has changed and the very best accept that they are there to make the tough calls and eat crow occassionally for the greater good of the game. Calls are scrutinized more, as is umpire behavior. I provided a very real situation where a coach called me on warning players from breaking the rules. I told it to support the idea that we should not coach, even if it makes us disappear out there. Yes, I believe a lot of it has to do with ratings and approval from the powers that be. It is far easier to tell a catcher that his pitcher is balking rather than simply call it and deal with upset players, coaches and fans.

Wrong on the part in bold. You said you do not work HS anymore. I still do a great deal of HS (cut back on all of it but it fills a good part of my schedule overall) and I work a lot of college too. College coaches have a lot of say in who works their games than most HS coaches and if you tick off a college coach they tend to hold more of a grudge. Again, most of those umpires I know treat this area almost the same. So that is why I do not understand your point about ratings when ratings do not determine who works in the playoffs (at least in our state as people might think they do) and this has nothing to do with not making a tough call. It has to do with trying to prevent a very borderline infraction like a balk so that every similar action will not have to be called based on a very minor or debatable infraction. But if the infraction is obvious, of course no matter what you have said that needs to be called. And I can tell you I have made a lot of tough calls at all levels only and my ratings are still very high.

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

If that is how you teach or umpire, okay, good for you. I try not to do that. Sometimes I forget or get lazy, but by and large I try to just call what I see. If that means a coach will get upset, so be it. I would rather have a coach pissed because I balked his pitcher than to have him confront me because I just cut the other team an illegal break by coaching.

I have no problem with you taking a different philosophy, but just understand it appears that many do not seem to agree or do what I suggested in this very specific case. I have never really heard anyone complain big time this from the coaching perspective and certainly do not do it for ratings. I call many balks a year and most of those calls go unchallenged in my experience. And if you think that is to appease some fans or a coach that was probably the funniest thing you said. Coaches and fans come and go; the top officials stay mostly the same.

Peace

[MikeStrybel]

At the risk of seeing another ramble and going against multiple PMs asking me not to engage you in logical debate, here goes nothing.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I totally disagree about not bringing in other sports, because most top officials I know work other or have at one time. And this is not just a baseball only philosophy where preventive officiating or umpiring is used. And finally this complete comparison to pro umpires is totally different. We are not the pros. They have a lot of things they would never have to deal with and things they do we never have to deal with. I honestly in most cases do not care what pro guys do because if I handled myself they do at the college and HS level, I might not be working very long.

You consistently bring up other sports that are not relevant to baseball umpiring. What may be acceptable in another sport has nothing to do with baseball officiating. Nothing.

You keep talking about the Manual, but I have never read in any manual how to look in your uniform or to have it looked pressed and or what mask to use which we often talk about here. Also in Illinois we do not use any Manual (at least not from the NF) so I have no idea what that says or care what it says.

I mentioned having a manual to corroborate opinion because that is exactly what others here do. They demand that an umpire show support for a contention.

Anyone who has attended pro school knows that we receive direction on how to dress. Many of us were also told what equipment to use. Still, your comment is ludicrous on face and depserate at best. We are talking about mechanics and those are readily available in a number of media formats.

In Illinois, we use the NFHS rule book, supplemented by the IHSA codes and by-laws. Our clinics cover mechanics and standards. In none of our baseball literature will you find mention of helping a team subvert the rules.

Wrong on the part in bold. You said you do not work HS anymore. I still do a great deal of HS (cut back on all of it but it fills a good part of my schedule overall) and I work a lot of college too.

I have never stated that. Please do not misrepresent what I say here.

College coaches have a lot of say in who works their games than most HS coaches and if you tick off a college coach they tend to hold more of a grudge. Again, most of those umpires I know treat this area almost the same. So that is why I do not understand your point about ratings when ratings do not determine who works in the playoffs (at least in our state as people might think they do) and this has nothing to do with not making a tough call. It has to do with trying to prevent a very borderline infraction like a balk so that every similar action will not have to be called based on a very minor or debatable infraction. But if the infraction is obvious, of course no matter what you have said that needs to be called. And I can tell you I have made a lot of tough calls at all levels only and my ratings are still very high.

For those not familiar with Illinois ratings protocol, I offer this: umpires are rated by coaches for every contest they work and by the top level of umpire partners (Certified) as well. Those numbers are compiled and officials are issued a power rating. It is used to rank you and assign playoffs. While not perfect, it is still a decent way to establish umpire ability. It is a work in progress and our leadership sees room for improvement. I anticpate changes that will allow for personal evaluation and less merit given to coach assessment and Top 15 list involvement. These last two are suspect at the moment.

Collegiate umpires also recieve ratings. I didn't think I needed to state the obvious.

I have spoken with numerous officials, both partners and at the clinics I teach, regarding ratings responsibility. Some guys refuse to check equipment, enforce jewelry rules, batter's box infractions or call balks simply because they want to earn top ratings from coaches. They openly admit that they are compelled to give players and teams breaks because they want to advance and are stuck behind higher rated umpires. This is not a difference in philosophy - the original play held a PU and his crew accountable for making a tough and unexpected call. We can debate ad nauseum whether they should have made that call or not, how they demonstrated it, who should have done what, how much tolerance was acceptable to upset coaches, etc. In the end, you umpire to your convictions. I related the story of a partner who tried 'preventive umpiring' (he told the shortstop to tell the pitcher to pause) only to have it blow up in his face. I showed how a coach jumped on me for keeping players from interfering with a play. Some of you find it acceptable to warn pitchers for balking (the rules don't support this) or other "minor" team/player infractions. Good for you. I encourage you to watch the CWS this week. Go to an MiLB park near you or watch the MLB crews at work. They have adopted new personalities out there. They don't ignore, coddle and help others cheat. I choose to emulate them. In the end, your integrity is all you have. I'll take a lower rating in order to sleep better at night. I see no reason to try to convince you to not cheat. If you are inclined to make it easier for yourself to officiate by preventing a player/team from breaking a rule, go ahead. I will not attempt to change that mindest any further. It is not arrogance, rather frustration that drives this now. I have never said I was better than anyone else here nor do I think others are less talented. Umpire to what is expected of you or allows you to be noticed by the powers that be. I'll continue to try to call what I see.