Texas - ASU game 3

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by UMP25

And of course that makes him the final word, perfection personified.

Well, no. But I do find it interesting that he's one of the few who hasn't insisted he has the definitive answer and he hasn't put down any other poster or any other opinion.

Amazing.

[tcarilli]

Another interesting note on when the batter becomes a runner.

In OBR, the batter becomes a runner when Four “balls” have been called by the umpire

In NHFS, the batter becomes a runner when a fourth ball is called by the umpire 8-1-1 c

The waters muddy.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by tcarilli

Another interesting note on when the batter becomes a runner.

In OBR ball four is not listed as a time when the batter becomes a runner except tangentially in 7.05 (i) for a base award on a pitch lodged in equipment. ....

Tony,

Where on earth did you get that notion?

6.08 The batter becomes a runner and is entitled to first base without liability to be put out (provided he advances to and touches first base) when—

(a) Four “balls” have been called by the umpire;

JM

[tcarilli]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Tony,

Where on earth did you get that notion?



JM

Whoops may bad JM. I missed that one. I thought so, did a search and missed it. Thanks for pointing that out.

[umpjim]

The scorekeeping for this play shows BI. The pitch sequence only goes up to ball 3. Wilson gets no BB. I don't know if they consulted with the umps but on unusual plays that might happen. Picture a close pitch which the batter thinks is B4. He's off and running and F2 comes up throwing. You call strike 2 and you have BI. Does the batter have to wait till you call ball 4 before he is legally a BR? NCAA implies this. I haven't checked the exact wording of the other codes yet.
Edited because I was doing it on an iPad.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Well, no. But I do find it interesting that he's one of the few who hasn't insisted he has the definitive answer and he hasn't put down any other poster or any other opinion.

Amazing.

That's his problem then.

[Durham]

I don't really have any problems at the moment. Living a blessed life and just trying to remember to thank the big guy every day for it.

[UMP25]

I don't doubt it, which is why it was tongue-in-cheek (if I didn't mention that, SOME idiot here would be throwing a hissy fit at the comment).

[Larry1953]

To continue to beat the dead horse. I read the NCAA rulebook. It says the batter becomes a runner the instant of ball four. Whereas the batter can be called for interference for actions intentional or unintentional that interfere with action around homeplate, the rules specifically state that a runner can only be called out for INTENTIONAL interference with a thrown ball. It could hardly be said that a runner merely shifting his weight toward first to take the base he was entitled to with the ball four is doing anything intentional to interfere with a throw from the catcher. Intentional means to perform an action that is not typical of a baseball play that displays a willful intent to get in the way of a throw or a thrown ball. For example, by NCAA rules, a popup slide by a runner going into directly into second on a straight line slide to break up a double play is allowed even if it results in contact and interferes with the keystone fielders throw. That is ruled a normal baseball action.

The walk indeed takes precedence over the "interference" because it immediately made the batter a runner and only the batter can be called for unintentional interference.

I recall a play where JR Towles of the Astros was attempting to make a throw to retire a runner attempting to steal third. The throw hit the batter's helmet and deflected into the dugout which allowed the runner to score. No interference was called.

[Larry1953]

The Towles play occurred on April 6 versus the Reds. The play is on MLB.tv highlights of the game. The runner on second was headed to third on a steal attempt. The right handed batter took the pitch and kept the bat over his shoulder. Towles came up throwing and his hand hit the bat as did the ball which caused the ball to be deflected into the third base dugout. The runner was awarded home and the announcers praised the batter for staying in the box. After reading this thread it is obvious the PU blew the call. The batter unintentionally interfered with the throw and should have been called out. The runner should have been sent back to second. Agreed?

[Larry1953]

To answer my own question by Rule 6.06 c this is not a case of batter interference. The batter needs to step out of the batter"s box or make a specific motion to be called for BI

[tcarilli]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

To continue to beat the dead horse. I read the NCAA rulebook. It says the batter becomes a runner the instant of ball four.

No it does not. 8-2-b "The batter becomes a base runner: instantly after fours balls have been called by the umpire." (emphasis added)

Thus an action on the part of the umpire must occur. I don't think it far fetched that on a border line pitch the catcher may throw and be interfered with before the umpire calls ball 4. Again, this play is not as black and white as we would like to think from a rule's perspective or from a common sense and fair play perspective.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by tcarilli

No it does not. 8-2-b "The batter becomes a base runner: instantly after fours balls have been called by the umpire." (emphasis added)

Thus an action on the part of the umpire must occur. I don't think it far fetched that on a border line pitch the catcher may throw and be interfered with before the umpire calls ball 4. Again, this play is not as black and white as we would like to think from a rule's perspective or from a common sense and fair play perspective.

Tony,

I disagree with your analysis. I believe once the umpire let's everyone know the pitch was a ball, it's "retroactive" to when it happened.

That's how all such things work in baseball.

Also, from the NCAA Rule 2:

Batter-Runner
SECTION 9. A term that identifies the offensive player who has just finished the time at bat and is either put out or becomes a runner before the play ends.

"By definition", he's a batter-runner.

JM