Illegal batter & tourney sub questions

[Rich]

Originally Posted by PirateMike1973

On the announcing issue, it is related to a "rule issue", as the LL rule book states that no one is to "call attention" to the improper batter. So I get where you guys are coming from...however, in practice, in our LL, the official scorekeeper is in the "rules business" with the PU. We work together on rules and interpretations and, in our league, all substitutions are given to to the scorekeeper by a mgr or coach, not to the PU as I know some leagues do.

The reason I asked the Tourney sub question, as it's not specifically addressed in the LL rule book, is that we have hosted district & regional tourneys and some managers have never heard of the "free sub" practice once a player & his sub have met MPR. Some managers "get around" the SPR rules by subbing this way. (Once MPR are met, the better runner subs in once the other player has batted, just like the better hitter or fielder subs in...)

I work a fair amount of LL, a lot during the tournaments. Once MPR is met, the starter and sub can replace each other at will. It has absolutely nothing to do with the SPR rule and the team batting is not "getting away with" anything.

Some coaches don't get the SPR rule -- I've had people waste the SPR when it would make the most sense to simply use a substitute (or vice versa). I don't ask questions in those situations, although I'll sometimes ask for clarification an on occasion I've had coaches realize other options they have at that point.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by PirateMike1973

Illegal batter question- in our LL we announce via PA system the batter. According to LL rules you are not to "call attention" to an improper batter. It has been our practice to announce the correct batter & let the "chips fall" after the announcement. In most cases the opposing coaches do not protest the illegal batter & things just continue. My question is - should we announce the proper batter or remain silent prior to the at bat. I'm a scorekeeper & announcer & I sometimes announce the next batter w/o looking to see who's "up". (Being busy w/the book & scoreboard, y'know multi-tasking.)

Tourney sub question- the LL rule book says only that a starter & sub must enter & re-enter in the same spot (which is different than reg season). The question is- if both players have fulfilled their mandatory play, can there be "offense & defense, and in some cases base running" substitutions with these two players. (After both fulfill mandatory play, player A bats & player B re-enters for defense or runs for player A.) The LL rule book does not address this issue.

The announcer should announce the player stepping into the batting box and then "let the chips fall".

The answer to your substitution question is yes. Once both players have completed mandatory play, they can freely be subbed for each other. AND I noticed it also does not stipulate that the starter has to have met mandatory play before the coach can start doing that.

Rita

[LilLeaguer]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

BOO is not a protestable event so this doesn't apply.

The scorekeeper is forbidden to call it to anyone's attention. The umpires are forbidden to call it to anyone's attention. It is specifically the defense's job to notice it. See 6.07 Note:

In OBR the scorekeeper prohibition is in rule 10. It's not just a LL rule.

Everybody in this thread agrees with that. Even the original poster knew this, but was curious about which way to avoid calling attention to BOO.

My point was different, small, and probably LL specific. It certainly isn't worth a third attempt to clarify.

I'll call this on myself. WOBW.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Don't understand why you posted this. You post something inapplicable to the situation, and then mention why it does not apply. Very odd.

Your 2nd paragraph is spot on. Regarding the first, I'd ask you to read the section of the book regardin scorekeeper duties. Yes - you're an "official". But it WOULD be out of line to bring up BOO or in any way cause it to be noticed.

He is correct that the scorekeeper is expected to catch illegal or ineligible substitutions in Little League to prevent a possible protest. BOO is not one of these.

Some examples might be: A catcher who has caught four innings is ineligible to pitch. A substitute who has not yet batted and the starter he subbed for comes up to bat. The scorekeeper is required to question these if they happen if they catch it.

Rita

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

BOO is not a protestable event so this doesn't apply.

The scorekeeper is forbidden to call it to anyone's attention. The umpires are forbidden to call it to anyone's attention. It is specifically the defense's job to notice it. See 6.07 Note:

In OBR the scorekeeper prohibition is in rule 10. It's not just a LL rule.

And he did point that out, Rich.

Rita

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by LilLeaguer

Everybody in this thread agrees with that. Even the original poster knew this, but was curious about which way to avoid calling attention to BOO.

My point was different, small, and probably LL specific. It certainly isn't worth a third attempt to clarify.

I'll call this on myself. WOBW.

I got it.

Rita

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Rita C

And he did point that out, Rich.

Rita

He pointed out that it wasn't protestable.

He didn't point out the rules requiring silence which needed to be there as others were trying to understand the scorekeepers role. Perhaps I should have made it a separate post. Sorry if I somehow offended.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

He pointed out that it wasn't protestable.

He didn't point out the rules requiring silence which needed to be there as others were trying to understand the scorekeepers role. Perhaps I should have made it a separate post. Sorry if I somehow offended.

Got it. No offense taken. Not by me anyway.

Rita

[LilLeaguer]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Sorry if I somehow offended.

No offense taken by me.

[aceholleran]

Once A + B have fulfilled mandatory play, they can be subbed in and out at any point. Of course, this does not apply if either player is the pitcher.

Ace in CT