Illegal batter & tourney sub questions

[PirateMike1973]

Illegal batter question- in our LL we announce via PA system the batter. According to LL rules you are not to "call attention" to an improper batter. It has been our practice to announce the correct batter & let the "chips fall" after the announcement. In most cases the opposing coaches do not protest the illegal batter & things just continue. My question is - should we announce the proper batter or remain silent prior to the at bat. I'm a scorekeeper & announcer & I sometimes announce the next batter w/o looking to see who's "up". (Being busy w/the book & scoreboard, y'know multi-tasking.)

Tourney sub question- the LL rule book says only that a starter & sub must enter & re-enter in the same spot (which is different than reg season). The question is- if both players have fulfilled their mandatory play, can there be "offense & defense, and in some cases base running" substitutions with these two players. (After both fulfill mandatory play, player A bats & player B re-enters for defense or runs for player A.) The LL rule book does not address this issue.

[UmpJM]

Mike,

If you are going to "announce" batters, the announcer should simply announce the player who is walking to the plate, regardless of whether or not he is "proper".

JM

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by PirateMike1973

Illegal batter question- in our LL we announce via PA system the batter. According to LL rules you are not to "call attention" to an improper batter. It has been our practice to announce the correct batter & let the "chips fall" after the announcement. In most cases the opposing coaches do not protest the illegal batter & things just continue. My question is - should we announce the proper batter or remain silent prior to the at bat. I'm a scorekeeper & announcer & I sometimes announce the next batter w/o looking to see who's "up". (Being busy w/the book & scoreboard, y'know multi-tasking.)

You should announce whoever shows up to the plate. If the PU indicates the sub, then announce with "now pinch hitting ...."; if there's no indication from PU, then "now batting ... " the same as you would if the "correct" batter was there.

[mbyron]

The first is not a rules question, but I would think you should announce, "Now batting for the Bulldogs," and then report the name and number of the player in the box. That takes you out of the rules enforcement business, and puts you in the reporting business, where you should be.

I don't do LL, so have no idea about the second question.

[Rich Ives]

First Q is answered.

Second Q: For any given batting slot: The sub cannot come out until he has met MPR. Once that happens the starter and sub in that slot can be swapped in and out at will.

[PirateMike1973]

On the announcing issue, it is related to a "rule issue", as the LL rule book states that no one is to "call attention" to the improper batter. So I get where you guys are coming from...however, in practice, in our LL, the official scorekeeper is in the "rules business" with the PU. We work together on rules and interpretations and, in our league, all substitutions are given to to the scorekeeper by a mgr or coach, not to the PU as I know some leagues do.

The reason I asked the Tourney sub question, as it's not specifically addressed in the LL rule book, is that we have hosted district & regional tourneys and some managers have never heard of the "free sub" practice once a player & his sub have met MPR. Some managers "get around" the SPR rules by subbing this way. (Once MPR are met, the better runner subs in once the other player has batted, just like the better hitter or fielder subs in...)

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by PirateMike1973

On the announcing issue, it is related to a "rule issue", as the LL rule book states that no one is to "call attention" to the improper batter. So I get where you guys are coming from...however, in practice, in our LL, the official scorekeeper is in the "rules business" with the PU. We work together on rules and interpretations and, in our league, all substitutions are given to to the scorekeeper by a mgr or coach, not to the PU as I know some leagues do.

Then amend my answer to: If the scorekeper has the sub, announce "now pinchitting, Jimmy". Otherwise, jsut announce "now batting, Johnny"

[PeteBooth]

In LL, Tourney rules are Different then the Regular season rules which is why it's not specifically covered in the book.

You need to get a copy of the Tourney rules

Check out the following:

http://llumpires.com/sites/llumpires...s_chart_bb.pdf

FWIW: You should visit active.com or the LL discussion Forum on facebook for LL type questions as there are some posters at those Forums ie; Rich Ives who are well versed in LL regs / Rules.

here's a link to Active

Community: Official Baseball Rules | Active.com


Pete Booth

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by PirateMike1973

however, in practice, in our LL, the official scorekeeper is in the "rules business" with the PU.

LL does not give you that authority. You might help PU administer the game ... when he asks.

One point not mentioned here... the possibility that YOU are the wrong party and announce the wrong batter - who then rushes to the plate instead of the proper batter. You've now CAUSED a BOO, adversely affecting the game.

Keep in mind at all times - scorekeeper's official duties are to keep track. PA's duties are to announce what is happening - not to affect it.

[lawump]

How to answer part A of the OP? Should I answer as an umpire, or as a former assistant SID who also did the baseball public address announcing?

What the hell, I'll go with the latter:

If it is the visitors who are sending the wrong batter up, you announce the wrong batter's name loudly and drawn out (so your team's head coach starts thinking to himself: WTF?).

If it is your team who is sending up the wrong batter, you announce the proper batter's name so that the wrong batter will stop dead in his tracks.



Seriously (as this is an umpire board) I have no changes to what was posted above.

[LilLeaguer]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

LL does not give you that authority. You might help PU administer the game ... when he asks.

[True and righteous observations deleted.]

Little League may be weird this way. Little League officials are urged to prevent protestable events in general (Note 2 to Rule 4.19). Scorekeepers are designated officials for the game. So, it would not be out of line for a scorekeeper to bring an illegal substitution (say an ineligible pitcher) to PU's attention unbidden.

BOO, of course, is not a protestable event, and announcing the actual batter at the plate is the correct way to handle this situation.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by LilLeaguer

Little League may be weird this way. Little League officials are urged to prevent protestable events in general (Note 2 to Rule 4.19). Scorekeepers are designated officials for the game. So, it would not be out of line for a scorekeeper to bring an illegal substitution (say an ineligible pitcher) to PU's attention unbidden.

BOO, of course, is not a protestable event, and announcing the actual batter at the plate is the correct way to handle this situation.

Don't understand why you posted this. You post something inapplicable to the situation, and then mention why it does not apply. Very odd.

Your 2nd paragraph is spot on. Regarding the first, I'd ask you to read the section of the book regardin scorekeeper duties. Yes - you're an "official". But it WOULD be out of line to bring up BOO or in any way cause it to be noticed.

[LilLeaguer]

Originally Posted by PirateMike1973

The reason I asked the Tourney sub question, as it's not specifically addressed in the LL rule book, is that we have hosted district & regional tourneys and some managers have never heard of the "free sub" practice once a player & his sub have met MPR. Some managers "get around" the SPR rules by subbing this way. (Once MPR are met, the better runner subs in once the other player has batted, just like the better hitter or fielder subs in...)

Free substitution within a blatting slot (once the sub's MPR is met) is why roster construction in LL playoffs is so much fun. That is not "getting around" the SPR limits; it's a perfectly valid substitution scheme.

[LilLeaguer]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Don't understand why you posted this. You post something inapplicable to the situation, and then mention why it does not apply. Very odd.

Your 2nd paragraph is spot on. Regarding the first, I'd ask you to read the section of the book regardin scorekeeper duties. Yes - you're an "official". But it WOULD be out of line to bring up BOO or in any way cause it to be noticed.

In your post that I was responding to, you said that "[The scorekeeper] might help PU administer the game ... when [the PU] asks." That might be misconstrued as a general statement about LL scorekeeper duties in every case.

I was pointing out, and being very clear that it didn't pertain to BOO, that there are circumstances when LL urges the scorekeeper to help administer the game without being asked. I don't think that is common in other rule sets, so I pointed it out for folks not as familiar with LL.

I'm sorry for the confusion.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by LilLeaguer

Little League may be weird this way. Little League officials are urged to prevent protestable events in general (Note 2 to Rule 4.19). .

BOO is not a protestable event so this doesn't apply.

The scorekeeper is forbidden to call it to anyone's attention. The umpires are forbidden to call it to anyone's attention. It is specifically the defense's job to notice it. See 6.07 Note:

In OBR the scorekeeper prohibition is in rule 10. It's not just a LL rule.