"Slinging the bat"

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Mike51

NFHS Is there any rule anywhere that states if the batter slings the bat and it hits the catcher, a team warning is issued? If so, if it happens a second time what happens?

Here is the situation I witnessed last week: In the third inning a batter slung his bat and the bat hit the catcher. The plate umpire came out after the play and told the coach he was issuing a warning to his team. The coach said ok.

Later in the game, another batter (same team) slung his bat and hit the catcher. After the play, the umpire called him out and returned all runners to their bases they occupied at the time of the pitch.

I had never heard of this, so when I got an opportunity I asked the coach of the team why the batter was out. He said for "slinging the bat". I asked him was this a "local rule" of this HS association. He said "no, it's a baseball rule". I thanked him went back to my seat.

Yesterday I saw the umpire at a coach pitch game. I asked him about the play. He said he would have ejected the second batter had it been his second time. I asked him was this a special rule of the HS association. He said it was a NFHS rule.

Let me say this, at no time did I argue with the coach or umpire. I have umpired many HS games. I just have never heard or read this rule.

Can anyone tell me where this rule is located in the book?

Thanks

I'm sorry but you ask a coach for a ruling? You stated that you are a HS umpire, you better get your nose into the rulebook and learn the rules. As an umpire, you are the authority on the field, you do not ask a coach about a rule, you tell the coach the rule!

Then you saw the umpire calling a coach-pitch game? Well, that explains everything!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

cb33,

There is no equivalent to the "warn, then eject" penalty for "bat throwing" in OBR rules. However, if the thrown bat interferes with a play or attempted play, the batter would be out under OBR rules as well.

Agreed, and will add that some youth leagues / programs have rules that address the situation, and may include out, ejection, or both, and warnings for each batter or for the team.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

Lot of umpires refuse to make this call, some refuse to make the call unless there is a play involved (e.g. throw on R1 to 2b); others only call it if the bat hits them.

And thank God for that. Unfortunately, some umpires, while insisting on "getting it right" at all costs, get this rule wrong. All umpires SHOULD refuse to make this call... it's wrong.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Mike51

I have read all the rules. My only question is whether or not the batter is out. That is what I am asking.

Apparently you missed at least one rule.

[Mike51]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I'm sorry but you ask a coach for a ruling? You stated that you are a HS umpire, you better get your nose into the rulebook and learn the rules. As an umpire, you are the authority on the field, you do not ask a coach about a rule, you tell the coach the rule!

Then you saw the umpire calling a coach-pitch game? Well, that explains everything!

Let me try and clear up my position.

I have umpired many HS games. I have been out of the HS loop for some time because of work constraints. I still try and keep up with rules because I love the game and plan to return to umpiring soon.
I have known this umpire and his family, they are good people, but have a penchant for coming up with rules on their own, or mis-applying a rule. This is not a bash of them, it is a fact.

I had never heard of a batter being out for "slinging the bat" so I thought perhaps it was some type of new rule this season. I would never approach an umpire as a spectator, that is why I asked the coach. He acted like it was a baseball rule.

Yes, I saw the umpire at a coach pitch game. He was coaching his son.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best
Lot of umpires refuse to make this call, some refuse to make the call unless there is a play involved (e.g. throw on R1 to 2b); others only call it if the bat hits them.

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

And thank God for that. Unfortunately, some umpires, while insisting on "getting it right" at all costs, get this rule wrong. All umpires SHOULD refuse to make this call... it's wrong.

The careless slinging of the bat rule is, nonetheless, a rule. Whether or not you or any other umpire decides to apply the rule properly is their choice.

I have seen instances where catchers are put in the way of great personal harm from carelessly released bats. Especially those that wear skull caps and masks instead of helmets. Umpires too.

Typically, it is one or two hitters who have been releasing their bats after contact since peewee ball. It's time they grow up and be coached up on this dangerous practice. I will call this in a heartbeat if I see a consistent pattern of careless release and any umpire who decides to ignore this issue of safety needs to thoroughly rethink why he is out there. IMHO, of course.

[MD Longhorn]

Here's what you were replying to:

After the play, the umpire called him out and returned all runners to their bases they occupied at the time of the pitch.

Your reply:

Originally Posted by Simply The Best
Lot of umpires refuse to make this call, some refuse to make the call unless there is a play involved (e.g. throw on R1 to 2b); others only call it if the bat hits them.

Yes, there IS a rule (in some sets) about a carelessly thrown bat. However, the ruling you replied to is WRONG. Period. Umpires refusing to make THAT call are correct, in that THAT call is wrong. I do "decide to apply the rule properly." Meaning I do refuse to make the call you were replying to.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

I have seen instances where catchers are put in the way of great personal harm from carelessly released bats. Especially those that wear skull caps and masks instead of helmets.

Carelessly discarding the bat is a FED rule. Skull caps are illegal for catchers in FED ball.

You are either applying a FED rule to other rule sets where it doesn't apply, or you are applying it in FED games while not enforcing the proper equipment rules for F2.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Carelessly discarding the bat is a FED rule. Skull caps are illegal for catchers in FED ball.

Carelessly releasing a bat where injury and harm can occur is a violation of UC in OBR.

You are either applying a FED rule to other rule sets where it doesn't apply, or you are applying it in FED games while not enforcing the proper equipment rules for F2.

Neither.

[Simply The Best]

Your reply:
Originally Posted by Simply The Best
Lot of umpires refuse to make this call, some refuse to make the call unless there is a play involved (e.g. throw on R1 to 2b); others only call it if the bat hits them.

Yes, there IS a rule (in some sets) about a carelessly thrown bat. However, the ruling you replied to is WRONG. Period. Umpires refusing to make THAT call are correct, in that THAT call is wrong. I do "decide to apply the rule properly." Meaning I do refuse to make the call you were replying to.

Which part of "lot of umpires refuse to make the call" did you not understand considering you "refuse to make this call"? My post was nothing more than a simple comment about how umpires handle the sitch. Nowhere was I directing the comment at or about you, it was a general comment about umpires, keep your britches on. Sheesh.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

Carelessly releasing a bat where injury and harm can occur is a violation of UC in OBR.

Reference, please.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

Carelessly releasing a bat where injury and harm can occur is a violation of UC in OBR.

Now, somebody is slinging something...

Can you offer a rule, interpretation or case play that supports this notion?

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best
Carelessly releasing a bat where injury and harm can occur is a violation of UC in OBR.

Originally Posted by BretMan

Now, somebody is slinging something...

Can you offer a rule, interpretation or case play that supports this notion?

UC is judgment, interp is what I consider UC. Carelessly releasing a bat where injury and harm can occur is UC.

Next.

[DG]

Should I ask what UC stands for, or does it matter, since I am not in sync with Simply on the subject?

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

Carelessly releasing a bat where injury and harm can occur is a violation of UC in OBR. UC is judgment, interp is what I consider UC. Carelessly releasing a bat where injury and harm can occur is UC.

That's what I figured you'd say, since that is the only possible thing upon which you could hang your hat. I sincerely doubt you will find any documented interpretation endorsing that ruling.

Next time we see a batter in a Major League game get fooled on a pitch, lose his grip on the bat and have the bat helicopter away from the plate in such a way that "injury and harm can occur", I guess we'll see that batter ejected.

Or maybe not.