Place the Runners

[rbmartin]

Originally Posted by yawetag

I'm not convinced they initially got it right. The runner may have stopped at third after being awarded home, but I'm not 100% convinced. There's nothing showing the umpire awarding bases.

The good thing about a dead ball is you have plenty of time to get it right.

[DG]

Did not see a conference and don't know why one would be necessary. I did have a similar situation once in a tournament game, I was working U3 position. Similar in that F4 bobbled the ball and then threw it over F2's head out of play and runner from 1b was being scored. Ball was already dead so I called crew together for discussion. One item of discussion was that the fielder bobbled the ball and then threw it out of play so the throw was 2nd play play by an infielder. I said bobbling the ball and picking it up was not a play it was screwup, throwing the ball was a play, and we all agreed on that and runner R1 returned to 3b. He had reached 2b at TOT if anyone wondering.

Can't see a major league crew needing this discussion.

[Rich]

Do you ever see a ML crew aggressively awarding bases? In the games I attend where balls are thrown in the stands, it seems like they don't really do much of anything and just assume that runners know where to go.

I know in a HS game, I *must* say "you, score" loud enough for everyone to hear and decisively enough to avoid having a visit.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Do you ever see a ML crew aggressively awarding bases? In the games I attend where balls are thrown in the stands, it seems like they don't really do much of anything and just assume that runners know where to go.

I know in a HS game, I *must* say "you, score" loud enough for everyone to hear and decisively enough to avoid having a visit.

At the Chicago NCAA meetings they showed a couple MLB plays for obstruction. In both, the umpires were emphatic and immediate in their awards. Even in the bigs, players don't always know where to go on such calls. Tom also showed two NCAA plays involving obstruction - both types. One involved a runner believing that he was protected when in fact he wasn't. Hiler reiterated the need for umpires to be assertive on this call and reminded us that collegiate athletes (in this case D-1) typically aren't aware of the award.

[MikeStrybel]

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For those of you who work college ball the link above are the videos I noted. Tom Hiler included two from Detroit Tigers games and in both the umpires aggressively award bases leaving no doubt about the call or for player confusion. The video section of the NCAA Central is a terrific resource.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

At the Chicago NCAA meetings they showed a couple MLB plays for obstruction. In both, the umpires were emphatic and immediate in their awards. Even in the bigs, players don't always know where to go on such calls. Tom also showed two NCAA plays involving obstruction - both types. One involved a runner believing that he was protected when in fact he wasn't. Hiler reiterated the need for umpires to be assertive on this call and reminded us that collegiate athletes (in this case D-1) typically aren't aware of the award.

This is one of those rules that very, very few players and coaches grasp. The good is if you can recite the rule verbatim and make it assertively, they are typically sold for no other reason than they haven't a clue how to argue it. Those that think they know will pull out some mythological phrase and try to apply it, again, rule knowledge and assertiveness win the day. I can think of only one EJ where this rule was the cause. Adult ex NCAA Div I coach, ex professionals and collegiate wood bat league. Rule applied, discussion with coach, ensuing discussion (short - he was clueless), more discussion by coach, EJ. Game clock was running, players want to play.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

I can think of only one EJ where this rule was the cause. Adult ex NCAA Div I coach, ex professionals and collegiate wood bat league. Rule applied, discussion with coach, ensuing discussion (short - he was clueless), more discussion by coach, EJ. Game clock was running, players want to play.

Interesting. I stopped working adult league games years ago, too big hassle, but I never worked one where there was a clock on the game.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by DG

Interesting. I stopped working adult league games years ago, too big hassle, but I never worked one where there was a clock on the game.

3 hours or 9 innings, whichever first. Two games per field starting at 1 PM Sunday, some fields refuse to supply lights. Weekday games started after work ~ 6PM typically on lit fields but often in neighborhoods where "lights out" was 10:00 PM mandated.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by DG

Did not see a conference and don't know why one would be necessary. I did have a similar situation once in a tournament game, I was working U3 position. Similar in that F4 bobbled the ball and then threw it over F2's head out of play and runner from 1b was being scored. Ball was already dead so I called crew together for discussion. One item of discussion was that the fielder bobbled the ball and then threw it out of play so the throw was 2nd play play by an infielder. I said bobbling the ball and picking it up was not a play it was screwup, throwing the ball was a play, and we all agreed on that and runner R1 returned to 3b. He had reached 2b at TOT if anyone wondering.

Can't see a major league crew needing this discussion.

Catching a ball (grounder, line drive, popup) is never a play. I wonder why so many umpires have a problem with this concept.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Catching a ball (grounder, line drive, popup) is never a play. I wonder why so many umpires have a problem with this concept.

If it were a play, there would be no reason for the rule, as all throws would be a subsequent play.