Appeal Play Process

[Rufus]

UmpJM - thanks for the quick reply. The PU stated that once time was granted my ability to appeal was forfeited. Do you have a rule citation just so I can understand it better (I'm not doubting you, just trying to be prepared - and don't worry, I wouldn't pull something like that out during a game attempt to show an umpire up as I much prefer coaching from the dugout than the parking lot).

Thanks again.

[UmpJM]

rufus,

You're welcome.

Your PU was mistaken.

From OBR Rule 7.10:

Any appeal under this rule must be made before the next pitch, or any play or
attempted play. If the violation occurs during a play which ends a half-inning, the appeal
must be made before the defensive team leaves the field.

You will note the pronounced absence of a phrase such as "...or before the defense requests Time...".

JM

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Do you have a rule citation just so I can understand it better.

FED: 8-2 PENALTY (you can read the whole thing, but here's the part that you're most concerned with):
"Appeals must be made (1) before the next legal or illegal pitch; (2) at
the end of an inning, before the pitcher and all infielders have left fair territory;
(3) before an intentional base on balls is granted; or (4) on the last play of
the game, an appeal can be made until the umpires leave the field of play."

OBR: 7.10 (basically the same as FED):
"Any appeal under this rule must be made before the next pitch, or any play
or attempted play. If the violation occurs during a play which ends a half-inning,
the appeal must be made before the defensive team leaves the field."

[Rufus]

Thanks to you both.

[soundedlikeastrike]

Rufus, as all have said somebody hosed somebody on this one.

I say somebody cause, if blue simply said, something like:
"you can't appeal cause you called time"
as opposed to
you can "no longer" appeal cause you called time."
Ya mighta hosed yourself by not appealing once the ball was put back in play?

So what was said exactly or how it was interpreted may be two different things? Don't know, but something for your tool kit in the future.

Blue won't and shouldn't have to take you through the whole thing, but he does have to tell it right; "coach time is out, we can't do anything" is how I'd put it. That's probably as much as you'd ever get from me.

For example I wouldn't tell you; "coach you gotta wait til the balls back in play before you appeal," and perhaps tip you off, unless of course, it's raining, cold and I got a kid on the team.

Anybody else have tips on how this should or shouldn't be communicated to a coach.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

Blue won't and shouldn't have to take you through the whole thing, but he does have to tell it right; "coach time is out, we can't do anything" is how I'd put it. That's probably as much as you'd ever get from me.

Anybody else have tips on how this should or shouldn't be communicated to a coach.

I'd simply say, "Coach, you can't make an appeal when the ball is dead."

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike
Blue won't and shouldn't have to take you through the whole thing, but he does have to tell it right; "coach time is out, we can't do anything" is how I'd put it. That's probably as much as you'd ever get from me.

Anybody else have tips on how this should or shouldn't be communicated to a coach.

Originally Posted by yawetag

I'd simply say, "Coach, you can't make an appeal when the ball is dead."

Or you could say nothing because nothing is what you have.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by yawetag

I'd simply say, "Coach, you can't make an appeal when the ball is dead."

Last week I had a coach come out and say, "Live ball appeal: he left second early!"

Thank you for participating.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Last week I had a coach come out and say, "Live ball appeal: he left second early!"

Thank you for participating.

And, if the runner had left early, you would have called the runner out on appeal handled this way? I think so based on the discussions above but want to be sure.

[UmpJM]

Rufus,

De nada.

Of course, there is one "twist" you may wish to be aware of. Under FED rules (and NCAA) it "matters" who initiates it should there be a "play" prior to the defense making it's appeal. Let's just say...

2 outs. R1 & R3. B3 hits a clean single. R3 scores. R1, in his haste to reach 3B safely, misses 2B on the way (he didn't "shortcut it", but EVERYBODY saw him miss it as he went by.)

As the ball comes back into the cutoff man, his HC is SCREAMING at him to do something. He's not sure what at first, but eventually gets the idea he wants him to go step on 2B for some reason.Being a compliant lad, he starts to jog in the direction of 2B to do as his coach suggests.

The R1 (now R3), realizing that "the jig is up", takes off for home "liking his chances better" on a play at the plate compared to being a "sitting duck" for an appeal play. Plus, it's a private school, and this kid got a 36 on his ACTs and realizes, should the defense successfully appeal his miss of 2B, the go-ahead run that just scored is coming off the board.

Did I mention the score was 2-2 in the top of 7 before the play occurred? Sorry.

The defense "goes for it", the catcher mishandles the throw and the (new) R3 scores.

FED: After the play at the plate, if the defense then goes ahead and appeals, properly, the half inning ends and neither of the apparent runs on the play scores.

OBR: Both runs stand and the defense no longer has a sustainable appeal.

JM

[UmpTTS43]

JM,

Why wouldn't that be considered continuous action?

[UmpJM]

UmpTT,

Uhmmmm because I MEANT it to be "non-continuous"?

If you prefer, we could have the ball back in the pitcher's hand, on the rubber, batter in the box, when the runner takes off for home.

JM

[UmpTTS43]

Just checking.

[David B]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Rufus,

Plus, it's a private school, and this kid got a 36 on his ACTs and realizes, should the defense successfully appeal his miss of 2B, the go-ahead run that just scored is coming off the board.

JM

Now that's funny ... but also very true.

Gotta love those private school kids

Thanks
David