over rule or not

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by DG

Might be some other reason he did not award, like allowing himself to be hit. In any event, I think this is good post game discussion, since no one complained and he did not ask for help.

See myth # 29.

[kylejt]

I hate the "get the call right" mentality.

It should be "get the procedure right".

On a play like this, the manager needs to do his job. He needs to go to the PU, ask what he had, and if he'd get help from the BU on the call.

Maybe the PU thought the batter should have moved, and intentionally held his ground. Who knows? But there's a proper way for these things to play out.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by kylejt

I hate the "get the call right" mentality.

It should be "get the procedure right".

I hate when umpires play with words instead of centering on getting the call right regardless.

On a play like this, the manager needs to do his job. He needs to go to the PU, ask what he had, and if he'd get help from the BU on the call.

Maybe the PU thought the batter should have moved, and intentionally held his ground. Who knows? But there's a proper way for these things to play out.

Screw proper. Get the call right. Properly if possible, or not.

[kylejt]

How far are you willing to take this? Are you also going jump the gun on checkswings, without waiting for the PU to ask you? At what point are we going to require the manager to do his job?

I'm all for getting the calls right, but the proper procedure needs to be maintained to do so.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by kylejt

How far are you willing to take this? Are you also going jump the gun on checkswings, without waiting for the PU to ask you? At what point are we going to require the manager to do his job?

I'm all for getting the calls right, but the proper procedure needs to be maintained to do so.

Which is what I said was preferable.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by kylejt

How far are you willing to take this? Are you also going jump the gun on checkswings, without waiting for the PU to ask you? At what point are we going to require the manager to do his job?

I'm all for getting the calls right, but the proper procedure needs to be maintained to do so.

This is why I also hate the "We got to get it right" crowd as well. If we are not out there to get it right we should not be out there. But that does not mean we should not allow people to do their job and if they make a mistake, they make a mistake.

Peace

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If we are not out there to get it right we should not be out there. But that does not mean we should not allow people to do their job and if they make a mistake, they make a mistake.

Which ultimately means you're first sentence above is BS, Rut.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

Which ultimately means you're first sentence above is BS, Rut.

First of all most of what I read from you is BS and that appears to be what the majority here think.

Secondly I come from an officiating background that if you cannot do the job they will find someone else to do it in your place. Or you will not be working very long. Not everyone can save us from a missed call. And if you can see what I am doing several feet away, what the heck did you miss? Half the time I do not even see plays my partner are involved in because I am watching other things. But as Snaqs said, there are always ball-watchers among us.

Peace

[BSUmp16]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

I hate when umpires play with words instead of centering on getting the call right regardless.Screw proper. Get the call right. Properly if possible, or not.

Man, I was really on a role agreeing with StB when all of a sudden he comes in with this. On calls that belong to your partner, you let your partner make the call. No "overruling". If you have information you want to pass on you can signal your partner to that effect (using the signal agreed upon in your pre-game). If he wants your help he can come to you. If one of the HC's doesn't think it is important enough to come out and ask about the call or ask your partner to get help, it's no longer any concern of yours - play ball. Get the call right, but don't go stepping on toes ("Fools rush in"). Follow proper procedure first.

[Simply The Best]

Me:Screw proper. Get the call right. Properly if possible, or not.

Originally Posted by BSUmp16

On calls that belong to your partner, you let your partner make the call. No "overruling".

Which I said earlier in this thread.

1.If you have information you want to pass on you can signal your partner to that effect (using the signal agreed upon in your pre-game). 2.If he wants your help he can come to you. 3. If one of the HC's doesn't think it is important enough to come out and ask about the call or ask your partner to get help, it's no longer any concern of yours - play ball.

1. - Correct. 2. Agree. 3.No way. If you know your partner has the wrong call, you need to let him know. Waiting for a manger to catch the incorrect call is unethical and serves the game, the players ans the officials poorly.

Get the call right, but don't go stepping on toes ("Fools rush in"). Follow proper procedure first.

Toes heal. Ultimately, it is all about how you perceive yourself as an official and how you wish to lead your life, isn't it?

[Adam]

In basketball, this is known as ball-watching, and is always justified by "get the call right" newer officials who don't understand the importance of procedure, primary coverage, and crew integrity. It's the same guy who would respond to a coach by saying, "Yeah, coach, I thought it was a bad call too, but he won't budge. Sorry."

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

In basketball, this is known as ball-watching, and is always justified by "get the call right" newer officials who don't understand the importance of procedure, primary coverage, and crew integrity.

Under your definition the crew has no integrity if they are willing to overlook a wrong call when one of the crew knows that is the case. Ultimately, it is all about how you perceive yourself as an official and a person and how you wish to lead your life, isn't it?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

Me:Screw proper. Get the call right. Properly if possible, or not.

That is great but just because you come in from 100 feet away does not mean you got it right either.

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

1. - Correct. 2. Agree. 3.No way. If you know your partner has the wrong call, you need to let him know. Waiting for a manger to catch the incorrect call is unethical and serves the game, the players ans the officials poorly.

What do you mean "know your partner has the wrong call?" Most judgment calls are just that, judgments. If they are in the right position how am I going to "know when they got something right or wrong all the time?" It is one thing if we are talking about rules, but a judgment call means that they made a judgment call. This situation we are talking about is a judgment call. Those can have different opinions. This has nothing to do with ethics, this has to do with the umpire have responsibilities and if you want to do their job, maybe you need to be on that field alone. Or they do not need to be there at all if they cannot do their job.

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

Toes heal. Ultimately, it is all about how you perceive yourself as an official and how you wish to lead your life, isn't it?

Yes and in life many people have different roles or jobs to do. That is why in the medical profession you have different levels of nurses and different doctors doing different things to possibly help in a hospital.

If procedure does not matter, why as base umpires we do not give our opinion on a checked swing until we are asked? Or better yet why do you not see BUs give ball/strike calls? Do not say procedures do not matter when we use them all the time in our job as umpires.

Peace

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That is great but just because you come in from 100 feet away does not mean you got it right either.
What do you mean "know your partner has the wrong call?"

Partner makes call. Partner is wrong. E.g. he didn't see the ball not caught because it landed out of his sight line. C'mon, Rut, surely you don't need this explained to you.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

I hate when umpires play with words instead of centering on getting the call right regardless.Screw proper. Get the call right. Properly if possible, or not.

IMO, you're too smart to actually believe this. You're just arguing for arguing's sake.

There are several guys who have come and gone from these boards that have taken this avenue. I hope you're not another one.