Legal Sub or BOO

DBull · #1 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 20, 2011, 09:07pm

This situation was posed to me today. Seems simple to me, but there is a lot of confusion to some. FED game.

Score is 1-0 home winning in top of 7th inning with 2 outs,S1 enters game to bat in 5th position for Jones #10,but fails to report. R1 on 1st advances to 3rd on 2 wild pitches during S1's time at bat. S1 advances to 1st on dropped 3rd strike and R1 scores on play. Before the next pitch,opposing coach appeals unreported S1. U1 says S1 is now a legal player and asks coach who S1 was batting for. Coach says #6 Smith , Smith is batting 6th on lineup card. Opposing coach now appeals batting out of order. U1 calls S1 out ending the ball game 1-0 home team as run is canceled.Was U1 correct?

I think we just have an unreported S1 legally batting for Jones in the 5 hole.

UmpJM · #2 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 20, 2011, 09:18pm

DBull,

Assuming the game was being played under FED rules, you are correct and U1 is incorrect.

Regardless of whom the coach WANTED the unannounced sub to bat for, he substituted for the player who was due to bat when he entered the batter's box and the ball was in play.

Case Play 3.1.1H covers it pretty well.

JM

Forest Ump · #3 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 20, 2011, 10:47pm

I actually had this happen in a JV game last Saturday. The DC thought the batter was out because he didn't tell me he was entering the game after he had received a few pitches. I told him no out coach, he's an un-announced sub. He entered the game when he stepped in the box and I said play. The head coach believed it but I could hear the AC in the dugout going off about how he had never heard of an un-announced sub in all his years in the game and blah, blah, blah.

You can't have a BOO when a sub enters un-announced. He will always be a proper batter because he takes the slot that is due up.

It's really a shame to hear that a HS umpire is screwing up calls like that.

UmpJM · #4 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 20, 2011, 11:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forest Ump

...

You can't have a BOO when a sub enters un-announced. He will always be a proper batter because he takes the slot that is due up.

...

Forest,

Excellent analysis! Well, almost.

You actually could have a BOO on an unannounced sub if he were an illegal sub. That is, a non-starter re-entering in a spot other than the one he had originally occupied, or a starter who had left the game, re-entered, left again, and then re-entered in a different spot in the batting order than he had originally occupied.

Of course, in those cases the penalty for an illegal sub would supersede the penalty for BOO, per 3-1-1 (1st sentence, top of page 26 in the 2011 FED rule book).

The only way an unannounced sub could be BOO, AND you would enforce the BOO penalty, would be a starter who had already left the game once and then re-entered in a different position in the batting order than he originally occupied in the lineup, unannounced.

While I concur that it is a "shame", this seems to be something that otherwise competent umpires seem to screw up from time to time.

JM

DBull · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 21, 2011, 09:23am

Yea, this did actually happen last Saturday. As an addition; after the initial screw-up, and even if things were as the umpire thought they were, he still would have called out the wrong player for BOO.

Cheers

MikeStrybel · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 21, 2011, 09:51am

Guys, please let me introduce a problem I can see occuring with the mechanic described in the original play. The DC comes out to appeal what he perceives to be BOO. You deny that appeal based on rule. He then asks for clarification and due to a coach's verbal error, you allow another appeal and grant the out. Yes, the coach misspoke but does anyone see a firestorm brewing? Further, how many times do you correct the coach and allow multiple appeals? Without your clarification, he was wrong - end of story. You just put the other team at a disadvantage by telling the coach what to do.

The sub DID NOT BAT FOR THE WRONG BATTER as #6 Smith is due up NOW. If you put the ball in play and Smith does not take his place in the box then you have a problem. According to the OP, the sub batted in the #5 spot, right? The coach decalring the wrong batter is irrelevant since the sub is already legally in the game as the #5 batter.

Thoughts?

DBull · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 21, 2011, 10:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

If you put the ball in play and Smith does not take his place in the box then you have a problem. According to the OP, the sub batted in the #5 spot, right? The coach decalring the wrong batter is irrelevant since the sub is already legally in the game as the #5 batter.

Thoughts?

Yep. This problem was avoided only because the wrongly called out ended the game.
Believe it or not, the umpiring crew are still trying to find a way to justify the call.

rcaverly · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 21, 2011, 11:34am

Quote: