Is this legal?

bacterium · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 22, 2003, 02:50pm

I'm talking about NCAA here. Is it legal for a player that is dribbling to run out of bounds, NOT TOUCH THE BALL WHILE OUT OF BOUNDS, and come back inbounds and continue dribbling?

I know this is illegal in the NBA, in fact the player that went out can't even be the first to touch the ball.

But I haven't seen anything in the NCAA rule book that addresses this issue. I think it is legal in the the NCAA so long as the ball never touches the player out of bounds and as long as the player re-establishes himself inbounds before continuing the dribble.

Thanks for helping out a stranger!

Hawks Coach · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 22, 2003, 03:20pm

what you have just done!

This is an ongoing discussion topic, re-raised in various permutations every 3-6 months. The rule is that the ball is OOB the moment a dribbler steps on the line, regardless of whether or not the dribbler is actually touching the ball at the moment he steps on the line. However. . .

If a dribble is considered to be interrupted, which is a momentary loss of control by the dribbler, then this rule would not apply. That is, if the dribbler loses the ball, then steps out, then gets completely back in, then touches the ball again, there is no violation. There is no rule that says you cannot be last to touch before stepping out and first to touch after stepping out.

As you will see, we will now have 3-4 pages of debate on whether or not this can ever be an interrupted dribble, or under what circumstances we would or would not consider this to be an interrupted dribble. Stay tuned, it is always an entertaining topic.

ROMANO · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 22, 2003, 03:24pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bacterium
I'm talking about NCAA here. Is it legal for a player that is dribbling to run out of bounds, NOT TOUCH THE BALL WHILE OUT OF BOUNDS, and come back inbounds and continue dribbling?

I know this is illegal in the NBA, in fact the player that went out can't even be the first to touch the ball.

But I haven't seen anything in the NCAA rule book that addresses this issue. I think it is legal in the the NCAA so long as the ball never touches the player out of bounds and as long as the player re-establishes himself inbounds before continuing the dribble.

Thanks for helping out a stranger!

IT is leagal in the FIBA rules.
and i also think that it should be leagal at NCAA and in the NBA.
WHY NOT?

Mike Burns · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 22, 2003, 03:33pm

If the dribbler is going out of bounds to avoid contact with a defender it would be a violation. If the dribbler looses control of the ball (interrupted dribble) then it would not be a violation.

bacterium · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 22, 2003, 03:40pm

Sorry if I started a fuss!

Thanks for the replies. I was envisioning a scenario where the player loses control of the dribble before going out of bounds, so I guess it's legal.

I guess the reason that it is NOT legal in the NBA is so that the official doesn't have to make a judgement call as to whether or not the player INTENTIONALLY went out of bounds or intentially lost his dribble.

Hawks Coach · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 22, 2003, 04:12pm

I think that the NBA starts with the assumption that players are at a much higher level so 1) they should be expected to control the ball and 2) they are so able to control the ball that they will have the quickness of mind and body to do things that HS and college players do not, and make it look accidental. So you can't be last to touch before going OOB and first to touch after. Another similar difference in rules is that any airball where the shooter rebounds his own miss is considered to be a self pass - in HS and college, the ref can decide if it is a try on goal and therefore not a travel.

With the NBA's interpretation of continuation, you can see that their approach to players and making plays kind of cuts both ways. They expect them to be able to make plays and penalize them when they can't (OOB and travel rules above), and they allow them great latitude to make plays when the defense is being penalized (continuation rule).

bacterium · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 22, 2003, 04:49pm

HC

Yep, that makes sense.

jking_94577 · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 22, 2003, 05:36pm

Does anyone know where in NBA rule book it is said that the last person to touch it cannot be the first person to touch it?

bacterium · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 22, 2003, 06:42pm

Regarding the NBA, this is where I got that:

http://www.basketball.com/nba/rules/rule10.shtml

It says:

"b. A player in control of a dribble who steps on or outside a boundary line, even though not touching the ball while on or outside that boundary line, shall not be allowed to return inbounds and continue his dribble. He may not even be the first player to touch the ball after he has re-established a position inbounds.
c. A player may not dribble a second time after he has voluntarily ended his first dribble.
d. A player may dribble a second time if he lost control of the ball because of:
(1) A field goal attempt at his basket, provided the ball touches the backboard or basket ring
(2) An opponent touching the ball
(3) A pass or fumble which has then touched another player"

If you read these things together, however, it does appear that if the player loses his dribble, goes out of bounds, and comes back in bounds, he CAN touch the ball, however he can't continue the dribble unless it touches another player. At least, that's how I read it.

[Edited by bacterium on Apr 22nd, 2003 at 09:58 PM]

BktBallRef · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 22, 2003, 06:51pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Burns
If the dribbler is going out of bounds to avoid contact with a defender it would be a violation. If the dribbler looses control of the ball (interrupted dribble) then it would not be a violation.

Really? Based on what rule?

canuckrefguy · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 22, 2003, 08:37pm

WORMS!

WORMS!

WORMS EVERYWHERE!

Hawks Coach is right...you have no idea what you've started.

jking_94577 · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 22, 2003, 08:48pm

For NCAA, can the dribble be continued after returning inbounds? As bacterium has pointed out, it looks like the NBA only lets you retrieve the ball but it does not let you continue dribbling unless one of those 3 things happen. Or is bacterium wrong because the first dribble never ended?

And another play that we used to do in the school yards before was this sitch. A1 loses the dribble. A1 is guarded by B1 so she throws it at B1. A1 then picks up the ball and regains dribble. Is this legal? According to NCAA and NBA rule book, the ball can be dribbled a second time after an opponent touches it.

[Edited by jking_94577 on Apr 22nd, 2003 at 09:19 PM]

Mike Burns · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 22, 2003, 09:35pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Burns
If the dribbler is going out of bounds to avoid contact with a defender it would be a violation. If the dribbler looses control of the ball (interrupted dribble) then it would not be a violation.

Really? Based on what rule?

NF
What I mean is, that a player who is dribbling (Player control) can not go around a defender by going out of bounds to avoid contact with the defender. Even if the ball itself does not touch out of bounds, or the player in control is not touching the ball, as soon as the player in control steps out of bounds they have violated. That would be based on rule 7-1-1.

As far as the interrupted dribble, I would base that on rule 4-15-5 and 4-15-6d.

[Edited by Mike Burns on Apr 22nd, 2003 at 09:48 PM]

BktBallRef · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 22, 2003, 10:05pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Burns
NF
What I mean is, that a player who is dribbling (Player control) can not go around a defender by going out of bounds to avoid contact with the defender. Even if the ball itself does not touch out of bounds, or the player in control is not touching the ball, as soon as the player in control steps out of bounds they have violated. That would be based on rule 7-1-1.

Not if the dribble is interrupted prior to going OOB.

DrakeM · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 23, 2003, 02:47am

If the dribble is "interrupted", there is no player control. I don't see that Mike's interpretation is in conflict with that. As long as the dribbler is "in control",
purposely leaves ball on the court to avoid a defender,then is the first to touch the ball after returning in-bounds to continue his dribble, it is illegal.