Runners Swap

[DG]

I was just asked this question. It came from a FED clinic but same could happen under OBR.

Bottom 7th, tie game, 2 outs, although I don't think that matters.

Batter hits a double, he is a slow runner. Next batter is fastest player on the team and he is intentional walked. Defensive coach goes to mound to talk with defense. Offensive coach calls runners over for discussion. When play resumes slow runner is on first and fast runner is on second. Batter hits first pitch for a hit, fast runner scores. Defensive coach comes out to complain that runners swapped.

What you got?

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by DG

I was just asked this question. It came from a FED clinic but same could happen under OBR.

Bottom 7th, tie game, 2 outs, although I don't think that matters.

Batter hits a double, he is a slow runner. Next batter is fastest player on the team and he is intentional walked. Defensive coach goes to mound to talk with defense. Offensive coach calls runners over for discussion. When play resumes slow runner is on first and fast runner is on second. Batter hits first pitch for a hit, fast runner scores. Defensive coach comes out to complain that runners swapped.

What you got?

I have an umpire who is asleep for putting the ball in play (or allowing his partner to do so). It should have been 3 ejections and an out for passing (maybe the out is a bit of a stretch but I like the idea).

[DG]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

I have an umpire who is asleep for putting the ball in play (or allowing his partner to do so). It should have been 3 ejections and an out for passing (maybe the out is a bit of a stretch but I like the idea).

I said same about the umpires and then questioner asked what if they were d*mn near twins, so back to subject....

I will comment later what I said.

[dash_riprock]

I still have 3 EJs. Did they forget which base they were on? Zero tolerance for that juvenile stuff.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by DG

I said same about the umpires and then questioner asked what if they were d*mn near twins, so back to subject....

I will comment later what I said.

Always look at the number of the lead runner if there are only two on base.

Now...your question asked...what do you have...what you have is a mess...that I'm not sure you can get out of...remember, the other coach didn't catch it either.

If you can write incident reports in your FED state, I would certainly do that under sportsmanship and they could be reprimanded by the state.

I'm not sure if FED allows you to go back and "fix" anything like that for not catching it when it should've been caught.

*you means the hypothetical "you" that we all use...not intended to be YOU personally.

[rbmartin]

If you notice it after the swap occurs (as you should) and before the pitch, do you eject the runners and manager under 9.01 (d)

9.01 (d)Each umpire has authority to disqualify any player, coach, manager or substitute for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct...

or do you call the runners out under

7.08 Any runner is out when- (h) He passes a preceding runner before such runner is out;...

and

7.08 Any runner is out when-(i) After he has acquired legal possession of a base, he runs the bases in reverse order for the purpose of confusing the defense or making a travesty of the game...

or are there other pertainant rules I need to reference?
Also, are you ejecting the runners or simply calling them out, or both?

[Mrumpiresir]

This is a blatent attempt to circumvent the rules to gain an advantage, in other words --CHEATING. I will implement the most severe penalty I can, and that would be to call the lead runner out for passing and call the trail runner out for running the bases in reverse order. And I dare a coach who just tried to cheat to come out and argue with me. He will be in the parking lot very quickly.

[MikeStrybel]

Try this on for size:

8-2-3 affirms that a runner who misses a base while advancing may not return to touch it after a following runner has scored. A proper appeal did occur. The batter hit the first pitch and the coach informed you that the proper runners were not on their bases. If you have a partner, confer. If not, you messed up by making the ball live but the appeal does not have to happen before the pitch. Yes, the defensive coach was sleeping but is not expected to look for deception on teh part of the other team. That is your job.

3-3-1g (4) - A coach, player, substitute or other bench personnel shall not commit any unsportsmanlinke act to include, but not limited to, behavior in any manner not in accordance with the spirit of fair play.

At minimum, you have two ejections. Neither runner can deny that they didn't know where they should be at the start of the play. The coach should be dumped if you believe he was aware or instigated the deception. This isn't a court of law, you simply have to believe he conspired.

It is a stretch but you are also able to forfeit the game under 4-4-1d, since the team's deception was done in order to end the game. Let the state deal with the protest. Document the matter correctly and the head coach won't have a leg to stand on for the protest.

I welcome any feedback about these thoughts.

[bob jenkins]

There's a FED interp to the effect that you call R1 out for passing, R2 out for running the bases in reverse and EJ the coach.

[MikeStrybel]

Agreed but that doesn't penalize the players for knowingly participating in a play that betrays fair play. Dump them all after calling the outs. The money we make isn't enough for dealing with this LL stuff. Forfeit the game and let the state, conference, league handle the coach and players.

As another wrote, look at the numbers, not the faces. When I log a conference, I note who is at bat and on base. That way a coach cannot tell me that he still has a conference or two left to burn. It's a good habit that takes ten seconds to record and saves the day when this happens.

[dash_riprock]

3 EJs and two outs is a penalty that fits the crime. And I won't listen to anyone except the new head coach, and I won't talk to him until the ejectees are out of sight and sound (the clock is running).

[DG]

2011 BRD number 427.

Now what do you do with the play that happened before the discovery?

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by DG

2011 BRD number 427.

Now what do you do with the play that happened before the discovery?

Undo it. The inning ended before the batter did anything.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by DG

2011 BRD number 427.

Now what do you do with the play that happened before the discovery?

What is the play?

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

3 EJs and two outs is a penalty that fits the crime. And I won't listen to anyone except the new head coach, and I won't talk to him until the ejectees are out of sight and sound (the clock is running).

Dash has it right....... This is the only way that the situation should end.... 2 out, 3 ejections (both runners & the OC). Just make damn sure you are correct as to who was where. Go to the score books if you have to but once you find it, you get 3 EJ's and that's all there is to it.