Where do the runners go?

[umpire99]

FED rules. R1 & R2 with two outs. Batter hits a deep fly ball to right center field. The two fielders converge and the center fielder dives for the ball. BU signals out as the ball is hitting the ground and the right fielder is picking it up and throwing it in. Batter ends up on second and both runners score. We confer and I (PU) tell him that I the ball was not caught. Where do we place the runners? Do we give them the last base they occupied or do we use our judgement to place them where they would have ended up? The batter was around first and R1 was nearing third when the error was made by BU.

[PeteBooth]

Please rephrase

You said BU signals out and then you said We confer and I (PU) tell him that I have a catch.

You said there were 2 outs so if you have a catch we now have 3 outs so what's your point

Pete Booth

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by umpire99

FED rules. R1 & R2 with two outs. Batter hits a deep fly ball to right center field. The two fielders converge and the center fielder dives for the ball. BU signals out as the ball is hitting the ground and the right fielder is picking it up and throwing it in. Batter ends up on second and both runners score. We confer and I (PU) tell him that I have a catch. Where do we place the runners? Do we give them the last base they occupied or do we use our judgement to place them where they would have ended up? The batter was around first and R1 was nearing third when the error was made by BU.

Is this a trick question? Runners take the field in their defensive positions. Catch was third out.

[umpire99]

Sorry. I fixed my mistake. I had no catch. The ball hit the ground.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by umpire99

Sorry. I fixed my mistake. I had no catch. The ball hit the ground.

Did the BU ask you for your opinion?

[umpire99]

Yes he did ask for my opinion or I would have kept it to myself.

[mcrowder]

Did anyone else react to the OUT call? What exactly happened, regarding the runners, during the rest of this play? We can't answer without that information.

(PS - why in the world would BU make an OUT call and then ask for help??!?!!!?!)

[GarthB]

I have similar questions.

1. Are you saying that the BU made his call, but everyone ignored it?

2. Or did BU made his call and the offense ignored it but the defense recognized it?

3. And did BU who had the call and was at least 100 feet closer than you really make an out call and then come to you for help?

4. How many ejections followed?

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by umpire99

FED rules. R1 & R2 with two outs. Batter hits a deep fly ball to right center field. The two fielders converge and the center fielder dives for the ball. BU signals out as the ball is hitting the ground and the right fielder is picking it up and throwing it in. Batter ends up on second and both runners score. We confer and I (PU) tell him that I the ball was not caught. Where do we place the runners?

You do not do anything with the runners.

You have R1/R2 2 outs so the runners are off with the pitch.

R1/R2 both score and the BR is at second base.

You do nothing as there is nothing to do.

This is what I think you meant.

R1 & R2 with ONE out. Batter hits a deep fly ball to right center field. The two fielders converge and the center fielder dives for the ball. BU signals out as the ball is hitting the ground and the right fielder is picking it up and throwing it in. Batter ends up on second and both runners score. We confer and I (PU) tell him that I the ball was not caught. Where do we place the runners?

If that's the case you could have a can of worms on your hand. On a deep fly to right centerfield the runners are probably 1/3 to 1/2 way between their advanced to bases. The BU said No catch so they in all likelyhood kept running and scored. Now the defense is going to appeal that the runners left early to get out number 3.

After you now REVERSE the call to a catch in HS using FED rules you cannot place either team at a disadvantage. Therefore the BR is out number 2 and put R1/R2 back to their TOP bases.

OBR has no such provision other then 9.01(c) in which case the results would be the same. R1/R2 back to their TOP bases with 2 out.

Pete Booth

[bossman72]

reversing a catch/no catch with multiple runners will probably cause more problems than it solves...

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bossman72

reversing a catch/no catch with multiple runners will probably cause more problems than it solves...

Agreed. It's on the NCAA list of "things not to change" (okay, that's not the exact title).

[MadCityRef]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Agreed. It's on the NCAA list of "things not to change" (okay, that's not the exact title).

Bob, we had this play discussion last year at the AOA meetings. Once the catch/out is called there's no going back. Out stands.