The batter attempts to bunt with 2 strikes but POPS it up

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

SLAS: Dang another disconnect. Live/dead is never dependent of anything on a foul ball, a foul ball by definition and rule is always "dead". Hence why it " a foul ball" can never be caught.

You're kidding - right? Read these:

The 2.00 definition of Foul Ball which you posted above.

5.09 The ball becomes dead and runners advance one base, or return to their bases, without liability to be put out, when—
(e) A foul ball is not caught, in which case runners return to their bases. This is necessary because "caught" is the other possible outcome

6.05 A batter is out when—
(a) His fair or foul fly ball (other than a foul tip) is legally caught by a fielder;

Rule 6.05(a) Comment: A fielder may reach into, but not step into, a dugout to make a catch, and if he holds the ball, the catch shall be allowed. A fielder, in order to make a catch on a foul ball nearing a dugout or other out-of-play area (such as the stands), must have one or both feet on or over the playing surface (including the lip of the dugout) and neither foot on the ground inside the dugout or in any other out-of-play area. Ball is in play, unless the fielder, after making a legal catch, falls into a dugout or other out-of-play area, in which case the ball is dead.


7.08 Any runner is out when—
(d) He fails to retouch his base after a fair or foul ball is legally caught before he, or his base, is tagged by a fielder.

10.08 SACRIFICES
The official scorer shall:
(d) Score a sacrifice fly when, before two are out, the batter hits a ball in flight handled by an outfielder or an infielder running in the outfield in fair or foul territory that
(1) is caught, and a runner scores after the catch, or
(2) is dropped, and a runner scores, if in the scorer’s judgment the runner could have scored after the catch had the fly been caught.

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

You're kidding - right? Read these:

The 2.00 definition of Foul Ball which you posted above.

5.09 The ball becomes dead and runners advance one base, or return to their bases, without liability to be put out, when—
(e) A foul ball is not caught, in which case runners return to their bases. This is necessary because "caught" is the other possible outcome

6.05 A batter is out when—
(a) His fair or foul fly ball (other than a foul tip) is legally caught by a fielder;

Rule 6.05(a) Comment: A fielder may reach into, but not step into, a dugout to make a catch, and if he holds the ball, the catch shall be allowed. A fielder, in order to make a catch on a foul ball nearing a dugout or other out-of-play area (such as the stands), must have one or both feet on or over the playing surface (including the lip of the dugout) and neither foot on the ground inside the dugout or in any other out-of-play area. Ball is in play, unless the fielder, after making a legal catch, falls into a dugout or other out-of-play area, in which case the ball is dead.


7.08 Any runner is out when—
(d) He fails to retouch his base after a fair or foul ball is legally caught before he, or his base, is tagged by a fielder.

10.08 SACRIFICES
The official scorer shall:
(d) Score a sacrifice fly when, before two are out, the batter hits a ball in flight handled by an outfielder or an infielder running in the outfield in fair or foul territory that
(1) is caught, and a runner scores after the catch, or
(2) is dropped, and a runner scores, if in the scorer’s judgment the runner could have scored after the catch had the fly been caught.

Rich is correct. This is why you point fair or foul on a caught fly ball near the line. You are signaling either a fair fly out or foul fly out.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

Rich is correct. This is why you point fair or foul on a caught fly ball near the line. You are signaling either a fair fly out or foul fly out.

Plus, the ball is fair or foul as soon as it's touched. It doesn't become caught until some time later (it might be just an instant later).

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Plus, the ball is fair or foul as soon as it's touched. It doesn't become caught until some time later (it might be just an instant later).

Exactly. The reason we point fair when it's touched is the player could fall or take a few more steps and run into a fence that separates the player from the ball and we'd have no catch with the player now 10 feet or more in foul ground. Pretty hard to sell a fair ball at this point. Point the ball fair on the touch and follow the rest of the play until we either have a catch or no catch.

[jkumpire]

Gentlemen,

Four pages on this?

Has umpiring and rules knowledge gotten so bad in our country that fundamentals 1st year guys should know before they start umpiring disappeared?

I am concerned.

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Exactly. The reason we point fair when it's touched is the player could fall or take a few more steps and run into a fence that separates the player from the ball and we'd have no catch with the player now 10 feet or more in foul ground. Pretty hard to sell a fair ball at this point. Point the ball fair on the touch and follow the rest of the play until we either have a catch or no catch.

Yea yea, that too.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

Gentlemen,

Four pages on this?

Has umpiring and rules knowledge gotten so bad in our country that fundamentals 1st year guys should know before they start umpiring disappeared?

I am concerned.

No need for concern. The number of informed umpires in this thread is far larger than the number of the uninformed and stubborn.

On any board and in any association, there's always one.

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

Gentlemen,

Four pages on this?

Has umpiring and rules knowledge gotten so bad in our country that fundamentals 1st year guys should know before they start umpiring disappeared?

I am concerned.

Yeah...4 pages to discuss the differentiation in 'touch' and 'catch' on a caught pop up. I've been a little concerned for 2 or three pages now.

[MikeStrybel]

The NCAA test review is out and it seems that I answered this question correctly. I appreciate those of you who offered rulings, even if they weren't relevant to NCAA ball. Good luck this season.

[celebur]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

The NCAA test review is out and it seems that I answered this question correctly. I appreciate those of you who offered rulings, even if they weren't relevant to NCAA ball. Good luck this season.

Can you post the exact wording of this question from the NCAA exam?

[johnnyg08]

Can you post the entire NCAA exam? (not your results, but the questions would be great)

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Can you post the entire NCAA exam? (not your results, but the questions would be great)

Only by cutting and pasting every one of 105 (or some such number) question.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by celebur

Can you post the exact wording of this question from the NCAA exam?

My apologies for not posting the entire exam, but it is lengthy.

Here is the question from my 50 questions:

R1. The batter has fouled off the first two sacrifice bunt attempts. The batter attempts to bunt a third time but pops it up where F2 makes the catch in fould territory. R1 was moving on the pitch and F2's throw to first arrives before R1 can get back.

a. The batter is out and the ball is dead immediately.

b. R1 is not called out.

c. The result is an immediate dead ball when the catcher touches the foul pop up.

d. This results in a double play.

The answer is d.

I met with some NCAA officials who had this question too but contend that it was worded poorly. They insist that just because the throw arrived prior to the runner does not mean the runner is out and d assumes something not presented. I guess that means that they believe the play is an immediate dead ball then. Undoubtedly, I will be working the bases when this play happens to them.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

They insist that just because the throw arrived prior to the runner does not mean the runner is out and d assumes something not presented.

Translation: When they took the test they got the answer wrong and are too pig-headed to admit they were wrong.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

My apologies for not posting the entire exam, but it is lengthy.

Here is the question from my 50 questions:

R1. The batter has fouled off the first two sacrifice bunt attempts. The batter attempts to bunt a third time but pops it up where F2 makes the catch in fould territory. R1 was moving on the pitch and F2's throw to first arrives before R1 can get back.

a. The batter is out and the ball is dead immediately.

b. R1 is not called out.

c. The result is an immediate dead ball when the catcher touches the foul pop up.

d. This results in a double play.

The answer is d.

I met with some NCAA officials who had this question too but contend that it was worded poorly. They insist that just because the throw arrived prior to the runner does not mean the runner is out and d assumes something not presented. I guess that means that they believe the play is an immediate dead ball then. Undoubtedly, I will be working the bases when this play happens to them.

I don't see any problem with the wording of this question. It's a foul out and a successful retouch appeal on R1. 2 outs. What does answer "d" assume that wasn't presented? The only thing I can think of is that the question doesn't say the base was tagged. "F2's throw to first arrives before R1 can get back" is enough for me.