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Old Fri Jan 14, 2011, 03:27am
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Running Start behind Third

I had always thought that an R3 who established a running start behind 3rd base during a tag up would be called out in a similar manner as a runner receiving a coach's assist, or a following runner passing preceding runner, etc. But I just learned that in OBR, it's an appeal call (so an umpire should remain silent until the defense makes a proper appeal of R3's running start). And this is written explicitly in the OBR rule book.

Is this also true for FED? I see the "running start" violation in the list of "Runner is out" actions that includes coach's assist, passing a runner, etc. in the Fed Rule Book (8-4-2-O). Also Case Book 8.4.2.M says "A runner is called out at the moment he passes a preceding runner, but the ball remains live. Acts such as attempts of a runner to profit by running too far from the baseline to avoid a tag, or outside the three-foot lane while advancing to first, or running the bases in reverse, or otherwise making a travesty of the game may not be appealed. The umpire calls the runner out without waiting for the defensive player to call attention to the act." I always thought that "running start" would be included in such acts. Can someone point to me in the FED Rule or CASE Books where it is explicitly stated that running start is an "appeal play?" I can't find it in either...
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Old Fri Jan 14, 2011, 05:31am
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8-4-2o: Any runner is out when he: (o) positions himself behind a base to get a running start

8-2-6a lists the types of appeals, and "running start" isn't one of them. 8-4-2q mentions runners being out on an appeal (and lists the types as well), and they only happen when "the defense initiates a proper and successful appeal." There's no such clause on 8-4-2o, so it leads me to believe the runner would be out without an appeal.

Last edited by yawetag; Fri Jan 14, 2011 at 05:33am.
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Old Fri Jan 14, 2011, 08:28am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yawetag View Post
There's no such clause on 8-4-2o, so it leads me to believe the runner would be out without an appeal.
Your belief, and reasoning are correct (assuming you have the right references -- I didn't check those).
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Old Fri Jan 14, 2011, 08:51am
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According to the Baseball Rule Differences (BRD)...in FED call the out immediately and the ball remains live. For NCAA and OBR, the runner is out only if appealed by the defense.

I assume that the appeal would need to take the same form as any other appeal of a runner leaving early/not tagging up on a caught fly ball.

Chalk this one up as a difference that I had no idea was a difference- so I guess that I learned something today. Not like it's something I've ever had to call, or likely will ever have to, in one of my games. But if it happens, I'll be ready!
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Old Fri Jan 14, 2011, 09:28am
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In appeals, the OBR book speaks of tagging the runner or the base "missed or left too soon." It doesn't include "or at which the runner got a running start." (Of course, the "appeal" of BOO doesn't require a tag, either.)

However, that could be simply an oversight, and the BRD is carefully compiled. It's hard to believe that a running start has to be appealed, though.

I've wondered whether it's still a violation if the runner backs up behind the base to get a running start but then remains at the base (or runs partway to the next base and then retreats)?

Similarly, I was once called out when I tagged up on 3B on a long fly, and the 3B coach whacked my rear at the moment the outfielder caught the ball. Would I still have been out if I hadn't run home?
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Old Fri Jan 14, 2011, 09:48am
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Originally Posted by greymule View Post
In appeals, the OBR book speaks of tagging the runner or the base "missed or left too soon." It doesn't include "or at which the runner got a running start." (Of course, the "appeal" of BOO doesn't require a tag, either.)
I don't have my baseball books with me, but I'm 95%certain that it is mentioned, at least in some comment or note.
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Old Sun Jan 23, 2011, 08:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greymule View Post
In appeals, the OBR book speaks of tagging the runner or the base "missed or left too soon." It doesn't include "or at which the runner got a running start." (Of course, the "appeal" of BOO doesn't require a tag, either.)

However, that could be simply an oversight, and the BRD is carefully compiled. It's hard to believe that a running start has to be appealed, though.

I've wondered whether it's still a violation if the runner backs up behind the base to get a running start but then remains at the base (or runs partway to the next base and then retreats)?

Similarly, I was once called out when I tagged up on 3B on a long fly, and the 3B coach whacked my rear at the moment the outfielder caught the ball. Would I still have been out if I hadn't run home?
read 7.10 (a) a.r. you will find the answer you seek.
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