Fixing MLB

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

Oh, if it were only as simple as which pitcher might come in, thanks for sharing that. It is never just about "a lefty facing a lefty". Sometimes, it is "This LH hitter can't hit a sinker and our RHP is the best in this situation b/c he throws a sinker." So much more. Not to mention having to worry about if the other team is going to bring in a switch hitter or change to a RH batter.

Now, I know why you don't like it. There are no simple connect the dots in the game.

I was being a little facetious in my response because you made it sound like there was so much complicated to the strategy to baseball. Oh, that is ground breaking that we now a pitcher throws a sinker. At least they know he can throw that pitch it is about execution. In football they might not know they run a play out of that formation. The team may think they run to one side and because of motion or other movements they run to another side. Football is much more of a chess game than any baseball game as there is not much you can do in baseball but throw the ball and try to make the batter miss it. Even basketball has many more variations to offenses and defenses than that. All these sports have strategy, but to say that the dots are too simple in other sports and baseball is the complicated mind game, you cannot be serious.

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

Again, it does have everything to do with ADD. And, as far as HS boys, that is not a fair assessment (yet again). Let's see. Free shots to hit someone. More are allowed to be on the team. HS girls cheerlead and come to the game. The list can go on and on including how the game of football works with its other rules.

Not sure what ADD has to do with more people want to go watch a game. Baseball at the high school and college level is not even a revenue sport for most schools across the country. And the games as the high school level are theoretically much shorter than high school games. After all there are only 7 innings in baseball at the high school level. Many games end in less than 2 hours (and that is with speed up rules unlike the pros). High school football games almost always go over 2 hours and can be longer. It is much more than attention span that is drawing people in.

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

Also, football is far simpler in its method of play which is why there are fewer rules in it than in baseball. And, perception of "time delay" in the game is different.

Fewer rules than baseball??? Really???

Do you realize that there are over 300 rules differences from college to pro? Do you realize there over 200 from college to high school? Fewer rules?? I could step into working a MLB game right now and not pick up a rulebook at that level and function. You cannot do that in football, not even close. There are so many different penalties differences or so many mechanics difference. When I started working baseball I did not have to completely change the way I thought of the game to umpire unlike I had to in other sports. Of course there are rules in baseball that are not easy or well understood, but let us not make it seem that someone that watches a high school game cannot figure out when someone is out or when someone is safe in a baseball game. There are big time football fans that do not realize what is legal or illegal in a basic game because the levels have so many differences. And still the public loves to watch football much more than baseball. Remember, a MNF game had more people watch than a post-season baseball game, with two middle of the road teams with nothing on the line in that game. Both LCS have players that are the best in the game and two of the more popular teams in them and they were outdone by a regular season football game. And if San Francisco wins against Philly we will see worse ratings differences. I would have never imagined that when I was a kid.

Peace

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Football is much more of a chess game than any baseball game as there is not much you can do in baseball but throw the ball and try to make the batter miss it.

I guess you've never seen the defense adjust for a pull hitter. How about moving in for the possible bunt?

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Football is much more of a chess game than any baseball game as there is not much you can do in baseball but throw the ball and try to make the batter miss it.

As I recall, you have often claimed that you weren't a baseball person.

Well, I guess you were right.

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

As I recall, you have often claimed that you weren't a baseball person.

Well, I guess you were right.

And that quoted along with the now known, to me, knowledge of him not being a baseball person explains everything. Now, I know what I am dealing with and that it is a complete waste of time to explain the game. Thanks for informing me.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by yawetag

I guess you've never seen the defense adjust for a pull hitter. How about moving in for the possible bunt?

I guess to you that is big time strategy.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

As I recall, you have often claimed that you weren't a baseball person.

Well, I guess you were right.

I am not a baseball person from the standpoint I do not live and die with the game. And it appears I am in the norm as most people watching are not either. Which again you have not been able to address why a post season game has fewer people watching than a regular season game. The NFL would never have less ratings than another sport in their post season. Talking about what people do not understand about the sport and assuming they are not as intelligent is not helping baseball very well now is it?

Peace

[DG]

I heard a story once, Ted Williams was asked, long after he retired, about the pitching at present. He was asked to compare against pitchers of his day. He said he would not be able to bat much over .300 against today's pitchers. The questionaire asked if the pitchers were that much better these days, and he said no, I'm in my 60's now...

[zm1283]

I love baseball. It's my favorite sport to officiate and it and the NFL are my favorites to watch. With that said, baseball is a very, very simple game as far as strategy goes when you really get down to it. Execute on offense, make defensive plays, and throw strikes. Now actually doing those things well takes a lot of talent, but you can't tell me that preparing/strategizing for an NFL game is less complicated than figuring out that you need to put the shift on when Ryan Howard is up.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by DG

I heard a story once, Ted Williams was asked, long after he retired, about the pitching at present. He was asked to compare against pitchers of his day. He said he would not be able to bat much over .300 against today's pitchers. The questionaire asked if the pitchers were that much better these days, and he said no, I'm in my 60's now...

I think that despite the differences, baseball players from different generations would be able to compete fairly evenly against players of other times, i.e. players from the 50s/60s would do fine in today's game. I don't know if I would say the same about football. The players are definitely bigger and faster than they were 40-50 years ago, so I would bet the players from past decades would have a harder time with football now than the baseball players would.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

MNF had more viewers (and the game was bad on top of that) than the LCS. It is much more than pace of the game.

Peace

And, now that the Yanks and the Phils are out, what do we think viewership for the WS will be with Tex vs SF? With the major markets out, only followers of those teams and the purists may watch...... If I'm an advertiser or network exec......

[greymule]

With that said, baseball is a very, very simple game as far as strategy goes when you really get down to it.

Can't agree there. Fielders, for example, have to consider many factors in deciding where to position themselves, how to move, where and how hard to throw, what the contingencies are and how they change as a play unfolds. The announcers don't mention a lot of this, but if you've played infield at some reasonably high level, then you know what I'm talking about.

Further, the fact that some pitchers with less "stuff" than others can end up in the Hall of Fame is attributable largely to strategy and psychology. High school pitchers throw harder than Bobby Shantz, Stu Miller, and Harvey Haddix, yet those small guys were great. (I met Shantz years ago. He looked like a jockey.) There a whole lot more going on than appears to the casual observer. I'm reminded of when I was watching a World Cup soccer game on TV in the presence of a bunch of guys from Guatemala. They would suddenly get excited when it appeared to me that absolutely nothing was happening.

All sports have their intricacies. But some sports are "understandable" to an enjoyable degree even for people who don't know much. I know only the basics of football, and learning all the rules about who can block whom when and where wouldn't enhance my enjoyment of the game. I do appreciate it, though, when a couple of friends—one who played in the NFL briefly, another who coaches in college—point out important elements I'd never have noticed on my own.

The players are definitely bigger and faster than they were 40-50 years ago, so I would bet the players from past decades would have a harder time with football now than the baseball players would.

Pro linemen are almost all over 300 pounds today, aren't they? What did they average in the 1970s—275? In the 1950s—225? Remember Sherman Plunkett, whose 300+ pounds made him unusual?

One of my former schoolteachers played center for Princeton in the (Heisman trophy winner) Dick Kasmaier days. I think Princeton was undefeated and ranked in the Top Ten one of those years. This guy was tough and determined, but he was about 5'5" and couldn't have weighed 150 pounds. In 1966, when the former football captain of that school tried out for his college team (a good football school in the south), the coach said that he was the best football player he had ever seen, pound for pound. Trouble was, at 157, there just weren't enough pounds. (Today the guy is a billionaire, so don't feel too sorry for him.)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by grunewar

And, now that the Yanks and the Phils are out, what do we think viewership for the WS will be with Tex vs SF? With the major markets out, only followers of those teams and the purists may watch...... If I'm an advertiser or network exec......

This will be in my opinion one of the lowest rated in recent years. I will never say it will be that low, but not what MLB would like to see. At least not compared to other numbers of other post season events and other things that are not as important to watch.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by greymule

With that said, baseball is a very, very simple game as far as strategy goes when you really get down to it.

Can't agree there. Fielders, for example, have to consider many factors in deciding where to position themselves, how to move, where and how hard to throw, what the contingencies are and how they change as a play unfolds. The announcers don't mention a lot of this, but if you've played infield at some reasonably high level, then you know what I'm talking about.

I am do not need to hear what the announcers are saying to know that moving fielders around is not the same as a defensive coverage in other sports changing. And certainly not the same when the basics of baseball is execution. Even if they shift fielders you still have to hit the ball where they are not. I do not consider that as an an earth shattering or hard to counter.

Originally Posted by greymule

Further, the fact that some pitchers with less "stuff" than others can end up in the Hall of Fame is attributable largely to strategy and psychology. High school pitchers throw harder than Bobby Shantz, Stu Miller, and Harvey Haddix, yet those small guys were great. (I met Shantz years ago. He looked like a jockey.) There a whole lot more going on than appears to the casual observer. I'm reminded of when I was watching a World Cup soccer game on TV in the presence of a bunch of guys from Guatemala. They would suddenly get excited when it appeared to me that absolutely nothing was happening.

For the record they cheer in soccer because there is a possibility to score.

Originally Posted by greymule

All sports have their intricacies. But some sports are "understandable" to an enjoyable degree even for people who don't know much. I know only the basics of football, and learning all the rules about who can block whom when and where wouldn't enhance my enjoyment of the game. I do appreciate it, though, when a couple of friends—one who played in the NFL briefly, another who coaches in college—point out important elements I'd never have noticed on my own.

I was really not trying to get into a full debate of what the sport has more strategy. The point is that a lot of baseball strategy is so simple that it is predictable on many levels. Many things are not surprises even to the other coach. Heck we know when they are going to change a picture. We know when the batter is going to be pinch hit for. Those are not things that catch everyone by surprise. When a bunt situation is on it is not a surprise. Even a shift is extremely obvious when executed. A blitz by the defense in football is not so obvious and the result that comes from it is not obvious either. The reason a basketball coach requests a timeout is because something was changed by the other team and their team has not made an adjustment or totally caught off guard by that strategy.

Whatever the reason the public is not watching. And I do not see anything wrong with changing rules to make the game more watchable. And no that is not going to be because of instant replay.

Peace

[greymule]

And, now that the Yanks and the Phils are out, what do we think viewership for the WS will be with Tex vs SF?

There was one WS 10-12 years ago that neither I nor anyone else watched. It got the lowest ratings ever. Not surprisingly, I can't remember who played in it. It might have been the Marlins and somebody.

[SAump]

Guys,

I know New York and Boston are the largest markets in sports, but New York can't win every year. Psst, come closer. The Yankees looked OLD on TV compared to the mighty Rangers. Have you ever seen a New York Yankees baseball team intentionally walk two different players in the late innings of an ALCS game they were losing by 5 runs?

The Phillies had a shot and lost to the Giants, and there are more people hating the Phillies (and Eagles) who would rather see the Giants in the WS. As far as ratings go, the best TWO teams in baseball earned a right to meet in the World Series. The new Texas Rangers "DYNASSTY" begins Wednesday night on FOX with a win over the Giants.