A LLWS Observation

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by LMan

I watched that play that was overruled, and U1 kicked it big time. So, is replay sort of a bassackwards QC check on the fact LL cant/wont ensure competent umpires at their tournament?

Like Denkinger or Joyce?

[Mrumpiresir]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Like Denkinger or Joyce?

That's a cheap shot.

Both these were good umpires and will be remembered for one blown call in an important situation.

On the other hand, while the LLWS has been well officiated, you cannot say the same for the Regional Tournament play. Those guys were generally terrible.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Mrumpiresir

That's a cheap shot.

Both these were good umpires and will be remembered for one blown call in an important situation.

On the other hand, while the LLWS has been well officiated, you cannot say the same for the Regional Tournament play. Those guys were generally terrible.

And LLMan took a cheap shot ot the LL umps - implying that they blew it because they were incompetent. I was merely pointing out that anyone can blow one.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

And LLMan took a cheap shot ot the LL umps - implying that they blew it because they were incompetent. I was merely pointing out that anyone can blow one.

If you merely want to point out that anyone can blow one, you should compare the LL umpires to someone at their level, you for example.

To compare them to trained professionals with years of major league experience is laughable.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Mrumpiresir

That's a cheap shot.

Both these were good umpires and will be remembered for one blown call in an important situation.

On the other hand, while the LLWS has been well officiated, you cannot say the same for the Regional Tournament play. Those guys were generally terrible.

And this is opinion is based on what(?), the evaluations you did on the umpires for all eight US regionals? I'm sure you had a real good look at all aspects of their work from the comfort of your couch as you watched the games on TV.

Give these guys a break, they're umpires, just like the rest of us. Treat them with some respect. These guys get slammed on their work because they're "volunteers" who ump LL, and as such, aren't as highly trained or have as much "big game experience" as us non LL guys and we would do a much better job. Yet, none of us would take an assignment to a LL Regional because we wouldn't get paid.

[Mrumpiresir]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

And this is opinion is based on what(?), the evaluations you did on the umpires for all eight US regionals? I'm sure you had a real good look at all aspects of their work from the comfort of your couch as you watched the games on TV.

Give these guys a break, they're umpires, just like the rest of us. Treat them with some respect. These guys get slammed on their work because they're "volunteers" who ump LL, and as such, aren't as highly trained or have as much "big game experience" as us non LL guys and we would do a much better job. Yet, none of us would take an assignment to a LL Regional because we wouldn't get paid.

At this level you need to have the best umpires available. I saw enough in the five or six games I watched to say that these guys were nowhere near the quality that would be expected.

They are not umpires like the rest of us. And it's not about being paid. I have worked hard, have gone to clinics and strive to be better every time out. These guys exhibited a lack of training and a lack of rules knowledge. Did you watch those games? Incorrect base award, Base on balls on ball three, very poor strike zone, all in one game.

Give me a break. Read some other forums and other post. I am not alone in my opinion. These guys were not good.

[UmpJM]

Mrumpiresir,

Originally Posted by Mrumpiresir

At this level you need to have the best umpires available. I saw enough in the five or six games I watched to say that these guys were nowhere near the quality that would be expected.

They are not umpires like the rest of us. And it's not about being paid. I have worked hard, have gone to clinics and strive to be better every time out. These guys exhibited a lack of training and a lack of rules knowledge. Did you watch those games? Incorrect base award, Base on balls on ball three, very poor strike zone, all in one game.

Give me a break. Read some other forums and other post. I am not alone in my opinion. These guys were not good.

I find your commentary to be shallow, crass, uninformed, and, ultimately, of little value.

Perhaps you could post some unedited video of you working your first game on (inter)nationally televised TV.

Do you think you would be nervous? I would. Plus, they have to deal with that new instant replay bull$hit. How would you like to have THAT in your first televised game?

While I would agree that some of the umpiring has been less than excellent, I think you paint with a very broad, and woefully indiscriminate, brush.

I have certainly seen some "blown" calls, and, I'll admit, some of the "idiosyncracies" I've seen in mechanics kind of make me roll my eyes.

However, there are a lot of things I haven't seen as well. I haven't seen ANYBODY who didn't care how he was dressed (although I don't subscribe to some of the sartorial conventions that have been adopted). I haven't seen anybody who looked like he's "mailing it in". Everyone I've seen has seemed pretty focused and engaged - pretty much every time you get a glimpse of them on TV. Probably more "over-hustle" than under.

Most of the "mistakes" I have seen seemed like "overexcited" mistakes - like guys are just a tad extra nervous being on TV and everything and they "rush" a little bit. Some of the mechanics seem a bit exaggerrated to me, but so what?

Although LL Inc. and ESPN have found a way to monetize this thing to an amazing and disturbing degree (I concur with Matt re: the "values" question), this is still 12 year old baseball. On a 60' diamond with closed bases. It's REALLY not that big a deal.

I applaud all those umpires who got the games, I commiserate with them on their missed calls (& I've got a ton of advice if they're interested... ), and I congratulate them for all the rest they got right. I hope they had a blast and made new friends. And had fun.

JM

[Mrumpiresir]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Mrumpiresir,

I find your commentary to be shallow, crass, uninformed, and, ultimately, of little value. Perhaps you could post some unedited video of you working your first game on (inter)nationally televised TV.

Do you think you would be nervous? I would. Plus, they have to deal with that new instant replay bull$hit. How would you like to have THAT in your first televised game?

While I would agree that some of the umpiring has been less than excellent, I think you paint with a very broad, and woefully indiscriminate, brush.

I have certainly seen some "blown" calls, and, I'll admit, some of the "idiosyncracies" I've seen in mechanics kind of make me roll my eyes.

However, there are a lot of things I haven't seen as well. I haven't seen ANYBODY who didn't care how he was dressed (although I don't subscribe to some of the sartorial conventions that have been adopted). I haven't seen anybody who looked like he's "mailing it in". Everyone I've seen has seem pretty focused and engaged - pretty much every time you get a glimpse of them on TV.

Most of the "misstakes" I have seen seemed like "overexcited" mistakes - like guys are just a tad extra nervous being on TV and everything and they "rush" a little bit. Some of the mechanics seem a bit exaggerrated to me, but so what?

Although LL Inc. and ESPN have found a way to monetize this thing to an amazing and disturbing degree (I concur with Matt re: the "values" question), this is still 12 year old baseball. On a 60' diamond with closed bases. It's REALLY not that big a deal.

I applaud all those umpires who got the games, I commiserate with them on their missed calls (& I've got a ton of advice if they're interested... ), and I congratulate them for all the rest they got right. I hope they had a blast and made new friends. And had fun.

JM

Crass maybe. Uninformed and shallow, get a grip. I expect all umpires at every level to work toward excellence as we all should. Study the rules and mechanics and learn how to umpire. I guess I am expecting more from these guys.

I take my umpiring seriously and expect others to do the same but it's obvious these guys have not studied rules or mechanics to the degree that is required of someone who should be assigned this level of ball.

Forgive me for being a perfectionist but these kids deserve good umpiring and they did not get it.

I have worked big venues and when I step on the field, there is no nervousness. I have confidence in my ability.

I regret that you have a problem with my post, but be more specific and I will address those issues.

[rookieblue]

I'm thinking UmpJM does have a very firm grip. The doctor diagnosed precisely.

This is Little League. "The kids deserve it." Just like they deserve the travesty of "personal profiles," and "favorite foods" and - God help us all, instant reply.

Little League needs to regain its bearings. It is a ship adrift, morally.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Mrumpiresir

I take my umpiring seriously and expect others to do the same but it's obvious these guys have not studied rules or mechanics to the degree that is required of someone who should be assigned this level of ball.

Forgive me for being a perfectionist but these kids deserve good umpiring and they did not get it.

I am in JM's camp

1. How do you KNOW these umpires do not take their umpiring seriously?

2. I am going to assume (I know could be a BIG mistake) that you get paid for your services so you can afford to attend clinics, buy the best equipment available. LL is for free. I do not agree with it BUT that is the premise.

Also, even if selected who can actually get the time off from work to umpire these games in the first place.

During the Regionals / LLWS there are still select travel tournamnets going on where you can earn decent money working those games.

I have worked big venues and when I step on the field, there is no nervousness. I have confidence in my ability.

Have you ever been on Nat'l TV umpiring in front of millions of viewers with Replay being used?

If NOT then you have NO basis for your response UNLESS you have been there.

Don't get me wrong I think the entire process is a joke ESPECIALLY replay at a kids game BUT these umpires are under a great deal of pressure becasue basically they have no backing. WP has sold their soul so whenever there is a "Close" call there is someone present who will get the umpires attention.

Personally, after this year I do not know why any umpire would want to subject themselves to what's going on. A prime example was in Bristol Conn.

Pete Booth

[Matt]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Yet, none of us would take an assignment to a LL Regional because we wouldn't get paid.

If LL was true to the principles it claimed, I would have no problem doing an LL regional for free. It is not, so it does not deserve a free service.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by Matt

If LL was true to the principles it claimed, I would have no problem doing an LL regional for free. It is not, so it does not deserve a free service.

Well said. At this point, it's strictly a business decision in my opinion. You're not going to get the best umpires, you're going to get the best umpires that will work for free.

We all have Smitty in our areas of the country who will work for next to nothing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing those of us who will do a game here or there for a reduced or comp'd game fee...or even the little league umpires who choose to work for free (that's your decision) but it's tough to watch them time after time, making critical mistakes on ESPN...and for the casual fan out there, they see the shenanigans pulled by the coaches toward the umpires and the Wizard of OZ behind the curtain for rulings...it doesn't make the rest of us look very good.

Or some might say...it makes the rest of us look very good.

None of us are immune from missing a call here or there, I'm not dumb enough to state otherwise.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

And this is opinion is based on what(?), the evaluations you did on the umpires for all eight US regionals? I'm sure you had a real good look at all aspects of their work from the comfort of your couch as you watched the games on TV.

Give these guys a break, they're umpires, just like the rest of us. Treat them with some respect. These guys get slammed on their work because they're "volunteers" who ump LL, and as such, aren't as highly trained or have as much "big game experience" as us non LL guys and we would do a much better job. Yet, none of us would take an assignment to a LL Regional because we wouldn't get paid.

Pfft. Did you watch? Holy cow. The opinion that these guys were awful is based on the fact that they were awful. The fact that they work for free seems to absolve them of the responsibility to not suck in your book. Not in mine. Bad calls happen. But consistent bad positioning, bad mechanics, unnecessary overhustle, lack of rules knowledge, etc. (One thing I will give them is that I haven't seen any laziness at all - but I guess that's a little easier working just one game with a 6 man crew).

[MD Longhorn]

Oh, and a PS about television. I've been there. Once. It was a HUGE discussion point in the locker room before the game. We were definitely more on edge before the game. (And this was football, not baseball or softball). But those telling you that once the game starts you work your game are correct. Once we got into the pregame rhythm it became rote, and once the game started we'd forgotten entirely about the cameras.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Pfft. Did you watch? Holy cow. The opinion that these guys were awful is based on the fact that they were awful. The fact that they work for free seems to absolve them of the responsibility to not suck in your book. Not in mine. Bad calls happen. But consistent bad positioning, bad mechanics, unnecessary overhustle, lack of rules knowledge, etc. (One thing I will give them is that I haven't seen any laziness at all - but I guess that's a little easier working just one game with a 6 man crew).

Don't tell me what's "in my book." Don't presume you know what I look for from myself as an umpire, or what I look for from partners. You have no idea what type of umpire I am. One thing that you should know, it's not my style to trash other umpires or to not treat them with the respect any fellow umpire deserves.

JM, Pete, Rich have all posted replies that I think put the whole LLBB regional and WS umpiring in the right perspective.

My point is that this is an organization (LLBB) who's leagues and post season tournaments the large majority of us here on the board do not work. It's a level of BB we may have been involved in at one time, but we no longer work small diamond BB for whatever reason.

So unless there are some of us here who harbor some deep desire to be working an LL regional of WS, to be standing in the place of these guys are this week, why all the criticism?

They're Little League umpires. LLBB is a different gig, we all know that (or should anyway), it's why we don't/won't work it. That's our choice. The guys we've seen on ESPN made the choice to work LLBB, let them umpire.

You want to slam LLBB and the powers and the whole replay thing fine, have at it, they deserve it....not the umps.