A LLWS Observation

[Mrumpiresir]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Like Denkinger or Joyce?

That's a cheap shot.

Both these were good umpires and will be remembered for one blown call in an important situation.

On the other hand, while the LLWS has been well officiated, you cannot say the same for the Regional Tournament play. Those guys were generally terrible.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Mrumpiresir

That's a cheap shot.

Both these were good umpires and will be remembered for one blown call in an important situation.

On the other hand, while the LLWS has been well officiated, you cannot say the same for the Regional Tournament play. Those guys were generally terrible.

And LLMan took a cheap shot ot the LL umps - implying that they blew it because they were incompetent. I was merely pointing out that anyone can blow one.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

And LLMan took a cheap shot ot the LL umps - implying that they blew it because they were incompetent. I was merely pointing out that anyone can blow one.

If you merely want to point out that anyone can blow one, you should compare the LL umpires to someone at their level, you for example.

To compare them to trained professionals with years of major league experience is laughable.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Mrumpiresir

That's a cheap shot.

Both these were good umpires and will be remembered for one blown call in an important situation.

On the other hand, while the LLWS has been well officiated, you cannot say the same for the Regional Tournament play. Those guys were generally terrible.

And this is opinion is based on what(?), the evaluations you did on the umpires for all eight US regionals? I'm sure you had a real good look at all aspects of their work from the comfort of your couch as you watched the games on TV.

Give these guys a break, they're umpires, just like the rest of us. Treat them with some respect. These guys get slammed on their work because they're "volunteers" who ump LL, and as such, aren't as highly trained or have as much "big game experience" as us non LL guys and we would do a much better job. Yet, none of us would take an assignment to a LL Regional because we wouldn't get paid.

[Mrumpiresir]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

And this is opinion is based on what(?), the evaluations you did on the umpires for all eight US regionals? I'm sure you had a real good look at all aspects of their work from the comfort of your couch as you watched the games on TV.

Give these guys a break, they're umpires, just like the rest of us. Treat them with some respect. These guys get slammed on their work because they're "volunteers" who ump LL, and as such, aren't as highly trained or have as much "big game experience" as us non LL guys and we would do a much better job. Yet, none of us would take an assignment to a LL Regional because we wouldn't get paid.

At this level you need to have the best umpires available. I saw enough in the five or six games I watched to say that these guys were nowhere near the quality that would be expected.

They are not umpires like the rest of us. And it's not about being paid. I have worked hard, have gone to clinics and strive to be better every time out. These guys exhibited a lack of training and a lack of rules knowledge. Did you watch those games? Incorrect base award, Base on balls on ball three, very poor strike zone, all in one game.

Give me a break. Read some other forums and other post. I am not alone in my opinion. These guys were not good.

[UmpJM]

Mrumpiresir,

Originally Posted by Mrumpiresir

At this level you need to have the best umpires available. I saw enough in the five or six games I watched to say that these guys were nowhere near the quality that would be expected.

They are not umpires like the rest of us. And it's not about being paid. I have worked hard, have gone to clinics and strive to be better every time out. These guys exhibited a lack of training and a lack of rules knowledge. Did you watch those games? Incorrect base award, Base on balls on ball three, very poor strike zone, all in one game.

Give me a break. Read some other forums and other post. I am not alone in my opinion. These guys were not good.

I find your commentary to be shallow, crass, uninformed, and, ultimately, of little value.

Perhaps you could post some unedited video of you working your first game on (inter)nationally televised TV.

Do you think you would be nervous? I would. Plus, they have to deal with that new instant replay bull$hit. How would you like to have THAT in your first televised game?

While I would agree that some of the umpiring has been less than excellent, I think you paint with a very broad, and woefully indiscriminate, brush.

I have certainly seen some "blown" calls, and, I'll admit, some of the "idiosyncracies" I've seen in mechanics kind of make me roll my eyes.

However, there are a lot of things I haven't seen as well. I haven't seen ANYBODY who didn't care how he was dressed (although I don't subscribe to some of the sartorial conventions that have been adopted). I haven't seen anybody who looked like he's "mailing it in". Everyone I've seen has seemed pretty focused and engaged - pretty much every time you get a glimpse of them on TV. Probably more "over-hustle" than under.

Most of the "mistakes" I have seen seemed like "overexcited" mistakes - like guys are just a tad extra nervous being on TV and everything and they "rush" a little bit. Some of the mechanics seem a bit exaggerrated to me, but so what?

Although LL Inc. and ESPN have found a way to monetize this thing to an amazing and disturbing degree (I concur with Matt re: the "values" question), this is still 12 year old baseball. On a 60' diamond with closed bases. It's REALLY not that big a deal.

I applaud all those umpires who got the games, I commiserate with them on their missed calls (& I've got a ton of advice if they're interested... ), and I congratulate them for all the rest they got right. I hope they had a blast and made new friends. And had fun.

JM

[Mrumpiresir]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Mrumpiresir,

I find your commentary to be shallow, crass, uninformed, and, ultimately, of little value. Perhaps you could post some unedited video of you working your first game on (inter)nationally televised TV.

Do you think you would be nervous? I would. Plus, they have to deal with that new instant replay bull$hit. How would you like to have THAT in your first televised game?

While I would agree that some of the umpiring has been less than excellent, I think you paint with a very broad, and woefully indiscriminate, brush.

I have certainly seen some "blown" calls, and, I'll admit, some of the "idiosyncracies" I've seen in mechanics kind of make me roll my eyes.

However, there are a lot of things I haven't seen as well. I haven't seen ANYBODY who didn't care how he was dressed (although I don't subscribe to some of the sartorial conventions that have been adopted). I haven't seen anybody who looked like he's "mailing it in". Everyone I've seen has seem pretty focused and engaged - pretty much every time you get a glimpse of them on TV.

Most of the "misstakes" I have seen seemed like "overexcited" mistakes - like guys are just a tad extra nervous being on TV and everything and they "rush" a little bit. Some of the mechanics seem a bit exaggerrated to me, but so what?

Although LL Inc. and ESPN have found a way to monetize this thing to an amazing and disturbing degree (I concur with Matt re: the "values" question), this is still 12 year old baseball. On a 60' diamond with closed bases. It's REALLY not that big a deal.

I applaud all those umpires who got the games, I commiserate with them on their missed calls (& I've got a ton of advice if they're interested... ), and I congratulate them for all the rest they got right. I hope they had a blast and made new friends. And had fun.

JM

Crass maybe. Uninformed and shallow, get a grip. I expect all umpires at every level to work toward excellence as we all should. Study the rules and mechanics and learn how to umpire. I guess I am expecting more from these guys.

I take my umpiring seriously and expect others to do the same but it's obvious these guys have not studied rules or mechanics to the degree that is required of someone who should be assigned this level of ball.

Forgive me for being a perfectionist but these kids deserve good umpiring and they did not get it.

I have worked big venues and when I step on the field, there is no nervousness. I have confidence in my ability.

I regret that you have a problem with my post, but be more specific and I will address those issues.

[rookieblue]

I'm thinking UmpJM does have a very firm grip. The doctor diagnosed precisely.

This is Little League. "The kids deserve it." Just like they deserve the travesty of "personal profiles," and "favorite foods" and - God help us all, instant reply.

Little League needs to regain its bearings. It is a ship adrift, morally.

[jkumpire]

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade here, but as I was turning a channel yesterday, I thought I saw a graphic posted that said six calls were appealed to replay, and three were overturned. Please let me know if I am wrong about this.

If the replay booth is overturning half of the calls it gets, then there is a real problem with LLWS umpires in PA, or the replay system is a farce. What calls went to the replay booth?

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Mrumpiresir

I take my umpiring seriously and expect others to do the same but it's obvious these guys have not studied rules or mechanics to the degree that is required of someone who should be assigned this level of ball.

Forgive me for being a perfectionist but these kids deserve good umpiring and they did not get it.

I am in JM's camp

1. How do you KNOW these umpires do not take their umpiring seriously?

2. I am going to assume (I know could be a BIG mistake) that you get paid for your services so you can afford to attend clinics, buy the best equipment available. LL is for free. I do not agree with it BUT that is the premise.

Also, even if selected who can actually get the time off from work to umpire these games in the first place.

During the Regionals / LLWS there are still select travel tournamnets going on where you can earn decent money working those games.

I have worked big venues and when I step on the field, there is no nervousness. I have confidence in my ability.

Have you ever been on Nat'l TV umpiring in front of millions of viewers with Replay being used?

If NOT then you have NO basis for your response UNLESS you have been there.

Don't get me wrong I think the entire process is a joke ESPECIALLY replay at a kids game BUT these umpires are under a great deal of pressure becasue basically they have no backing. WP has sold their soul so whenever there is a "Close" call there is someone present who will get the umpires attention.

Personally, after this year I do not know why any umpire would want to subject themselves to what's going on. A prime example was in Bristol Conn.

Pete Booth

[MD Longhorn]

If MLB is watching this LLWS, I'm sure it's an anti-endorsement of replay. It's such a joke every time any coach questions ANYTHING, the entire crew gets together. So stupid. I know they have to ... the stupid goes to those who make them.

[David B]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;689905]

I am in JM's camp

1. How do you KNOW these umpires do not take their umpiring seriously?

2. I am going to assume (I know could be a BIG mistake) that you get paid for your services so you can afford to attend clinics, buy the best equipment available. LL is for free. I do not agree with it BUT that is the premise.

Also, even if selected who can actually get the time off from work to umpire these games in the first place.

During the Regionals / LLWS there are still select travel tournamnets going on where you can earn decent money working those games.



Have you ever been on Nat'l TV umpiring in front of millions of viewers with Replay being used?

If NOT then you have NO basis for your response UNLESS you have been there.

Don't get me wrong I think the entire process is a joke ESPECIALLY replay at a kids game BUT these umpires are under a great deal of pressure becasue basically they have no backing. WP has sold their soul so whenever there is a "Close" call there is someone present who will get the umpires attention.

Personally, after this year I do not know why any umpire would want to subject themselves to what's going on. A prime example was in Bristol Conn.

Pete Booth

I agree Pete. I've called games for years that were televised, been in large venue tournaments, etc., but I would NOT want to call a game under the microscope that LL is put under.

Simply, I don't believe that it gives the umpires a fair shake. I can count on one hand the number of conferences that I've had with umpires over the last five years during games; but, if you are doing LL, they must require you to bow to every whim of the coaches, because that's what the umpires on TV are doing every game.

Thansk
David

[KJUmp]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;689905]

I am in JM's camp

1. How do you KNOW these umpires do not take their umpiring seriously?

2. I am going to assume (I know could be a BIG mistake) that you get paid for your services so you can afford to attend clinics, buy the best equipment available. LL is for free. I do not agree with it BUT that is the premise.

Also, even if selected who can actually get the time off from work to umpire these games in the first place.

During the Regionals / LLWS there are still select travel tournamnets going on where you can earn decent money working those games.



Have you ever been on Nat'l TV umpiring in front of millions of viewers with Replay being used?

If NOT then you have NO basis for your response UNLESS you have been there.

Don't get me wrong I think the entire process is a joke ESPECIALLY replay at a kids game BUT these umpires are under a great deal of pressure becasue basically they have no backing. WP has sold their soul so whenever there is a "Close" call there is someone present who will get the umpires attention.

Personally, after this year I do not know why any umpire would want to subject themselves to what's going on. A prime example was in Bristol Conn.

Pete Booth

+1

[Mrumpiresir]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;689905]

I am in JM's camp

1. How do you KNOW these umpires do not take their umpiring seriously?

2. I am going to assume (I know could be a BIG mistake) that you get paid for your services so you can afford to attend clinics, buy the best equipment available. LL is for free. I do not agree with it BUT that is the premise.

Also, even if selected who can actually get the time off from work to umpire these games in the first place.

During the Regionals / LLWS there are still select travel tournamnets going on where you can earn decent money working those games.


Have you ever been on Nat'l TV umpiring in front of millions of viewers with Replay being used?

If NOT then you have NO basis for your response UNLESS you have been there.

Pete Booth

I know these umpires have not taken this seriously because they have apparently not educated themselves on the rules or the mechanis of a good umpire.

I have been on TV but not National TV, that's irrelevant. Once you step on the field, you call your game.

The basis for my response is If you are going to umpire, learn the rules. Learn proper mechanics.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Yet, none of us would take an assignment to a LL Regional because we wouldn't get paid.

If LL was true to the principles it claimed, I would have no problem doing an LL regional for free. It is not, so it does not deserve a free service.