A LLWS Observation

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Pfft. Did you watch? Holy cow. The opinion that these guys were awful is based on the fact that they were awful. The fact that they work for free seems to absolve them of the responsibility to not suck in your book. Not in mine. Bad calls happen. But consistent bad positioning, bad mechanics, unnecessary overhustle, lack of rules knowledge, etc. (One thing I will give them is that I haven't seen any laziness at all - but I guess that's a little easier working just one game with a 6 man crew).

Don't tell me what's "in my book." Don't presume you know what I look for from myself as an umpire, or what I look for from partners. You have no idea what type of umpire I am. One thing that you should know, it's not my style to trash other umpires or to not treat them with the respect any fellow umpire deserves.

JM, Pete, Rich have all posted replies that I think put the whole LLBB regional and WS umpiring in the right perspective.

My point is that this is an organization (LLBB) who's leagues and post season tournaments the large majority of us here on the board do not work. It's a level of BB we may have been involved in at one time, but we no longer work small diamond BB for whatever reason.

So unless there are some of us here who harbor some deep desire to be working an LL regional of WS, to be standing in the place of these guys are this week, why all the criticism?

They're Little League umpires. LLBB is a different gig, we all know that (or should anyway), it's why we don't/won't work it. That's our choice. The guys we've seen on ESPN made the choice to work LLBB, let them umpire.

You want to slam LLBB and the powers and the whole replay thing fine, have at it, they deserve it....not the umps.

[Mrumpiresir]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Don't tell me what's "in my book." Don't presume you know what I look for from myself as an umpire, or what I look for from partners. You have no idea what type of umpire I am. One thing that you should know, it's not my style to trash other umpires or to not treat them with the respect any fellow umpire deserves.

JM, Pete, Rich have all posted replies that I think put the whole LLBB regional and WS umpiring in the right perspective.

My point is that this is an organization (LLBB) who's leagues and post season tournaments the large majority of us here on the board do not work. It's a level of BB we may have been involved in at one time, but we no longer work small diamond BB for whatever reason.

So unless there are some of us here who harbor some deep desire to be working an LL regional of WS, to be standing in the place of these guys are this week, why all the criticism?

They're Little League umpires. LLBB is a different gig, we all know that (or should anyway), it's why we don't/won't work it. That's our choice. The guys we've seen on ESPN made the choice to work LLBB, let them umpire.

You want to slam LLBB and the powers and the whole replay thing fine, have at it, they deserve it....not the umps.

Fact is, those umpires did not perform well and as a result we will all have to live it down. There is no way you can defend their performance.

So, all the criticism is due to the lack of basic umpiring abilities exhibited by some of these guys. I think it has been correctly stated that getting a gig like this, even though they are volunteers, does not excuse their lack of basic mechanics and rules knowledge.

If you think this is ok.... well that's a sad statement of the expected qualities of those umpires.

[KJUmp]

[QUOTE=Mrumpiresir;690174]Fact is,
I haven't seen you post one quantifiable fact, just opinion.

those umpires did not perform well and as a result we will all have to live it down.
Live what down? With whom? Who cares? You think in the next game you work a coach is having LLWS flashbacks as he watches you work the game?

There is no way you can defend their performance.
Go back and read my posts. I haven't said anything about their performance on the field...positive or negative. What I have said is to show them some respect and to stop slamming them.

So, all the criticism is due to the lack of basic umpiring abilities exhibited by some of these guys. I think it has been correctly stated that getting a gig like this, even though they are volunteers,

does not excuse their lack of basic mechanics and rules knowledge.
They call ball, strike, fair, foul, safe and out, they cut into the diamond when the ball is hit to the OF. That's basic LL mechanics, there's nothing lacking. You might not like how they do it...but hey you're not a LL ump.
Lack of rules knowledge? Care to be specific?

If you think this is ok
I'm not their tournament UIC. It's his opinion that matters.

.... well that's a sad statement of the expected qualities of those umpires.[/QUOTE]
And just what are those expected qualities? Obviously they're different than LLBB's.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

does not excuse their lack of basic mechanics and rules knowledge.
They call ball, strike, fair, foul, safe and out, they cut into the diamond when the ball is hit to the OF. That's basic LL mechanics, there's nothing lacking. You might not like how they do it...but hey you're not a LL ump.
Lack of rules knowledge? Care to be specific?

I love watching all the base umpires in a 6-umpire system mindlessly pivoting into the infield for no good reason. I don't applaud that, however.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I love watching all the base umpires in a 6-umpire system mindlessly pivoting into the infield for no good reason. I don't applaud that, however.

Why do they use 6 anyways...the homerun is only 120 feet away.

Another missed call last night in the Ohio/Hawaii game at second base...these calls aren't that hard move to get an angle.

[GoodwillRef]

Missed a huge check (full swing) swing last night (OH vs HI), the PU asked the ump first base ump and he didn't respond had to ask him twice. Bobby Valentine was all over him...the PU should have gotten the swing it was completely obvious.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Why do they use 6 anyways...the homerun is only 120 feet away.

225. I've worked in the outfield on a small diamond. On balls hit to center field, you're still a long way away. And many crews will *not* send out U2 because they're afraid U3 won't rotate up to second so you get an umpire running away from a baseball instead of simply turning and ruling on the ball in the outfield. Everything is dumbed down for no good reason.

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Another missed call last night in the Ohio/Hawaii game at second base...these calls aren't that hard move to get an angle.

They are when the umpires don't have the baseball sense to take a few quick steps and a lean where necessary.

What you see on TV is not what you see everywhere, BTW. When our top district umpires (who all either worked or still work the WIAC, NAC, etc.) have a coach come out and ask for a kumbaya gathering, we tell them it isn't going to happen and that's the end of it. When I work on the bases, I stay outside the diamond as much as possible, including plays at second (unless the ball is hit to straight-away center field). I'm guessing we're not the typical district, though -- although after the top 5-6 umpires, we probably are.

5 of us in the district (not me, although I worked a Senior Regional -- I haven't applied to go to the LL regional cause I prefer working on a normal sized diamond) have worked a LL (majors) regional and one worked the LLWS. 1 of those assignments was a gold watch assignment. 3 of the other 4 worked plates in the regional final and the fourth worked U1 (and should've had a plate, but typical LL politics got in the way).

[Mrumpiresir]

[QUOTE=KJUmp;690178]

Originally Posted by Mrumpiresir

Fact is,
I haven't seen you post one quantifiable fact, just opinion.

those umpires did not perform well and as a result we will all have to live it down.
Live what down? With whom? Who cares? You think in the next game you work a coach is having LLWS flashbacks as he watches you work the game?

There is no way you can defend their performance.
Go back and read my posts. I haven't said anything about their performance on the field...positive or negative. What I have said is to show them some respect and to stop slamming them.

So, all the criticism is due to the lack of basic umpiring abilities exhibited by some of these guys. I think it has been correctly stated that getting a gig like this, even though they are volunteers,

does not excuse their lack of basic mechanics and rules knowledge.
They call ball, strike, fair, foul, safe and out, they cut into the diamond when the ball is hit to the OF. That's basic LL mechanics, there's nothing lacking. You might not like how they do it...but hey you're not a LL ump.
Lack of rules knowledge? Care to be specific?

If you think this is ok
I'm not their tournament UIC. It's his opinion that matters.

.... well that's a sad statement of the expected qualities of those umpires.[/QUOTE]
And just what are those expected qualities? Obviously they're different than LLBB's.

In a regional game, I don't remember the teams, with a runner on first, a ground ball was hit to the infield. The runner was forced at second and the throw to first went out of play. They awarded the batter - runner third base. WHY?? One of the other five umps should have corrected this. On another play, did you see the first base ump emphatically call the runner out as the ball sailed past the fielder? Extremely bad timing. A batter was walked on ball three. Routine calls badly missed. The list goes on. Have you not been watching? We have to live this down because we are all "Brothers in Blue" and what they do reflects on all of us. These are not just opinion.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

In a regional game, I don't remember the teams, with a runner on first, a groound ball was hit to the infield. The runner was forced at second and the throw to first went out of play. They awarded the batter - runner third base. WHY?? One of the other five umps should have corrected this. On another play, did you see the first base ump emphatically call the runner out as the ball sailed past the fielder? Extremely bad timing. A batter was walked on ball three. Routine calls badly missed. The list goes on. Have you not been watching? We have to live this down because we are all "Brothers in Blue" and what they do reflects on all of us. These are not just opinion.

I especially enjoy "foul ball" being bellowed out by the plate umpire as the ball is rolling back down the screen behind the plate.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by asdf

I especially enjoy "foul ball" being bellowed out by the plate umpire as the ball is rolling back down the screen behind the plate.

I enjoy (even more) watching the base umpires thrust their hands up like someone has a gun in their back on foul balls to the screen. I've worked with umpires that do this while I'm handing the catcher another baseball.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by asdf

I especially enjoy "foul ball" being bellowed out by the plate umpire as the ball is rolling back down the screen behind the plate.

asdf:
Please be more careful when you're quoting a poster.

In your post #63, you highlighted a reply to post that says at the top, Originally posted by KJump.

That was NOT posted by me. That reply was originally posted by Mrumpiresir. See post #62.

I'm already catching enough heat on what I've posted. I don't need to be taking it for comments I DID NOT post.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

asdf:
Please be more careful when you're quoting a poster.

In your post #63, you highlighted a reply to post that says at the top, Originally posted by KJump.

That was NOT posted by me. That reply was originally posted by Mrumpiresir. See post #62.

I'm already catching enough heat on what I've posted. I don't need to be taking it for comments I DID NOT post.

All I did was hit the quote button, just like I have many times in the past.

[Mrumpiresir]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

asdf:
post #62.

I'm already catching enough heat on what I've posted.

Deservedly So.

[Rich]

In a regional game, I don't remember the teams, with a runner on first, a ground ball was hit to the infield. The runner was forced at second and the throw to first went out of play. They awarded the batter - runner third base. WHY?? One of the other five umps should have corrected this. On another play, did you see the first base ump emphatically call the runner out as the ball sailed past the fielder? Extremely bad timing. A batter was walked on ball three. Routine calls badly missed. The list goes on. Have you not been watching? We have to live this down because we are all "Brothers in Blue" and what they do reflects on all of us. These are not just opinion.

I've read the account of the umpire working first (who actually should've known the location of the BR TOT, since he would've watched the release from F4 to read the throw before focusing on the call at first). Being on TV keeps a lot of people from stepping up, I think.

Truth is, an award of third on this play should be so rare that eyebrows should've immediately raised when the award was made.

Enough bashing. Time to start work for the day. First FB game tonight.

[LMan]

[QUOTE=Mrumpiresir;690210]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

One of the other five umps

This still makes me chuckle.