"ground" rule double

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Evan Longoria hit a long fly to the corner in right field against the Yankees Sunday at Tropicana Field. The ball landed in fair territory and bounced up and struck the extended foul pole screen above the yellow line on the outfield fence and then returned to the field of play. The play was halted, Longoria was awarded a double and the runner on first was held at third.

So, by rule, if a fair batted ball bounces up and hits any part of the foul pole above a yellow line is the ball dead and the batter awarded a double? Is this rule unique to MLB or is it standard at most levels?

Thanks in advance for any answer.

I'm sure you've seen or know that a fly ball that hits this "screen" is a home-run. So a two-base award on a bounding ball is consistent with this.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I'm sure you've seen or know that a fly ball that hits this "screen" is a home-run. So a two-base award on a bounding ball is consistent with this.

Thanks to all for the answers.

Yes, Bob the ball hitting the foul pole or the screen is universally understood as a home run. But the question of the ball bouncing into the screen was a question posed to me and I was not able to convince the questioner about the logic of the screen and foul pole having the same effect on a fair ball that bounded into either.

Thanks to this forum the answer is simple. The pole and the screen are in the stands and serve as visual aides for the umpire to determine whether the ball entering the stands was fair or foul. If fair on a fly=HR. On a bounce from fair ground=Double.

Thanks

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Thanks to all for the answers.

Yes, Bob the ball hitting the foul pole or the screen is universally understood as a home run. But the question of the ball bouncing into the screen was a question posed to me and I was not able to convince the questioner about the logic of the screen and foul pole having the same effect on a fair ball that bounded into either.

Thanks to this forum the answer is simple. The pole and the screen are in the stands and serve as visual aides for the umpire to determine whether the ball entering the stands was fair or foul. If fair on a fly=HR. On a bounce from fair ground=Double.

Thanks

It doesn't matter if the ball bounces from fair ground into FOUL stands, it's still a double. I don't understand why anyone would find this difficult to understand.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It doesn't matter if the ball bounces from fair ground into FOUL stands, it's still a double. I don't understand why anyone would find this difficult to understand.

The difficulty was grasping that the foul pole and screen are part of the stands.
He understands the ball landing fair and bouncing into the stands in foul ground is a fair ball. He thought the pole and screen were part of the playing field and, therefore, a ball bouncing into either and then back on to the field was ion play.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

The difficulty was grasping that the foul pole and screen are part of the stands.
He understands the ball landing fair and bouncing into the stands in foul ground is a fair ball. He thought the pole and screen were part of the playing field and, therefore, a ball bouncing into either and then back on to the field was ion play.

Some HS fields (though none around here) have foul poles that are inside the fence. Those are in play. All MLB parks have their poles outside the fence and thus out of play.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Some HS fields (though none around here) have foul poles that are inside the fence. Those are in play. All MLB parks have their poles outside the fence and thus out of play.

They don't groundrule them "outside"? Wow!

Besides, unless its far from the fence it's a pretty easy "fix" to put a short piece of fence in front of it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

They don't groundrule them "outside"? Wow!

Besides, unless its far from the fence it's a pretty easy "fix" to put a short piece of fence in front of it.

Around here if that happens, there's usually a line on the pole -- above the line, it's out. In this situation, a double.

[Sven K]

I believe the old Tiger Stadium in Detroit had a flagpole in fair territory about 440 feet from home plate which had a line on it. I'm not exactly sure if there was a ground rule for a ball on a bounce, but it would be a shame to hit one 440 feet, have it bounce up, hit the pole above the line, and not have a chance to leg out a triple!

[TxUmp]

Originally Posted by Sven K

I believe the old Tiger Stadium in Detroit had a flagpole in fair territory about 440 feet from home plate which had a line on it. I'm not exactly sure if there was a ground rule for a ball on a bounce, but it would be a shame to hit one 440 feet, have it bounce up, hit the pole above the line, and not have a chance to leg out a triple!

Minute Maid Park in Houston has a flag pole inside the fence in deep center field, which is also on a steeply sloping "terrace". I don't have the details, but a few years ago, a fly ball hit the pole 30-40 feet above the ground and the ball remained in play. I believe the BR got a double on what clearly would have neen a HR absent the pole.

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

But the question of the ball bouncing into the screen was a question posed to me and I was not able to convince the questioner about the logic of the screen and foul pole having the same effect on a fair ball that bounded into either.

Where would the ball have gone if the pole and screen were not there?

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by nopachunts

Where would the ball have gone if the pole and screen were not there?

Using this logic, a ball that bounces and hits the outfield wall would also be a double.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by yawetag

Using this logic, a ball that bounces and hits the outfield wall would also be a double.

Or a fielder.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by yawetag

Using this logic, a ball that bounces and hits the outfield wall would also be a double.

HUH?

If the pole/screen wasn't there it would continue on and go over the fence and be a double.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

HUH?

If the pole/screen wasn't there it would continue on and go over the fence and be a double.

And if the fence wasn't there, the ball would continue into dead ball territory and be a double.

The rule *could have been* written so the foul pole / screen was just part of the fence (e.g., the fence is 8' high except for the last 18" on each side where it's 25' feet high), and a ball bouncing off it and remaining in play is still live. But, it wasn't.