Opinions needed, OBR rules

[BK47]

if the PU has a strike three and the ball is obviously in the dirt and/or rolling away then I would think that most (I say most because some smaller guys such as 9-12 may not know) would know to start running right away to first. The catcher would also know right away to get the ball and either tag the BR out or throw to first. There I would say should be no problem unless the PU was sleeping and didnt know it was in the dirt and rolling around or away from the catcher.

I read this post as PU initially had a clean strike three. What made him change his mind to a dropped strike three? If he thought from the getgo that it was clean and he sold it so when he punched the batter out what would make him change his mind? Am I missing something? Did the BU signal to him that it was a dropped strike three?

[BK47]

also, is it possible that F2 dropped the ball on the transfer from glove to hand to roll the ball back to the mound?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BK47

also, is it possible that F2 dropped the ball on the transfer from glove to hand to roll the ball back to the mound?

That would be a third strike legally caught, and so not relevant to the OP.

[BK47]

like Pete says, and I said it earlier in this thread. Wouldnt this be the same as a fair ball called foul? You can not go back and make the call right and place BR and runners (if any) in locations you think they would have gotten to. You just get an a$$ chewing from the OC and live with it and try not to make the same mistake again.

Byron, my question to the originator here is why is PU changing his mind? What did he see to make him think the ball was dropped or might have been dropped after he already called the BR out? Did he say "Batter Out" on habit afterwhich he realized the ball was dropped and not secured by the catcher? I know that a transfer from glove to hand is still a catch but my point is maybe thats what he saw?

[txump81]

BK, correct. Same as fair ball called foul. Eat it.

Check out my thoughts earlier, maybe PU just had a brain fart about the U3K rule and less than 2 outs because notice in the OP, you had R1 and R2 so 1B was occupied at TOP. Then afterward realized his mistake.

Impossible to know since none of us operate a 1-900 service.

[jkumpire]

Sadly, I was not at the park either, and we have two younger umpires who are umpiring younger kids.

From all I can gather after talking to the umpires, the PU called out. The coach of the offense made his kids run until some of them scored as the defense left the field. At that point the game stopped and the offensive coach came out on the crew, after the batter had reached base.

The BU saw clearly the PU was wrong, and in the conference they had, the PU realized he was wrong. How he was wrong is an open question I cannot answer. They decided they had to get the call right, and fix it. That is when they called me.

Points:

1. This is not an out/safe judgment call, a tag/no tag play or a fair/foul call. By rule a put out on the Batter or a runner has to be made, and sadly, the PU missed it. Once the PU says he misses it, it is very hard to see how you can just leave a rule error unfixed.

2. The idea of fixing calls, and getting the call right is a problem that a lot of us have with umpiring these days, and I didn't like this trend when it started. But now it is here. We have to live with it.

3. I understand the distinction some of you are making about where the ball is. If it is a High School or above game, I can live with "the ball bounced right into F2's glove (or he dropped it at his feet) so he was going to throw the BR out at 1B, inning over, sorry if I missed the call" (with the reasonable number of ejections coming after the play).

But maybe in HS, and certainly below, we cannot assume this play will be made 95%+ of the time. And the PU's biggest mistake on the play was selling out vocally so the defense left the field, so the defense could get the out.

The PU's mistake did not give the defense the opportunity for the putout, and how do you fix it? In this specific case, I am not convinced that out is the right call to fix it.

I will let you know about the result of any protest by the losing team.

[yawetag]

Does anyone else have a problem with umpires using a phone WHILE ON THE FIELD to call someone to determine how to fix a problem?

I understand these are younger kids, but I don't see how you could command any respect for the rest of this game, not to mention any future games. Make your call, clean up the mess, then call and ask AFTER the game -- it's a learning experience. Using someone else to clean up your mess doesn't make you learn. It gives you a crutch that you cal always fall on when an issue arises.

[PeteBooth]

First off this is NOT a protestable situation. It is called Umpire error. No different then the PU calling a ball FOUL that was FAIR. The losing team can protest all they want but to no avail.

You keep asking - how do you fix?

Already answered. The OUT call stands UNLESS the ball was no-where near F2 after he dropped it.

Pete Booth

[txump81]

Originally Posted by BK47

if the PU has a strike three and the ball is obviously in the dirt and/or rolling away then I would think that most (I say most because some smaller guys such as 9-12 may not know) would know to start running right away to first. The catcher would also know right away to get the ball and either tag the BR out or throw to first. There I would say should be no problem unless the PU was sleeping and didnt know it was in the dirt and rolling around or away from the catcher.

I read this post as PU initially had a clean strike three. What made him change his mind to a dropped strike three? If he thought from the getgo that it was clean and he sold it so when he punched the batter out what would make him change his mind? Am I missing something? Did the BU signal to him that it was a dropped strike three?

Not being there and unfortunately, for the pocket book--not being able to read minds, here are my thoughts.

PU called the batter out as 1B was occupied which is the correct call with less than 2 outs. I would assume(I know, I know) that this was PU's thinking. 1B occupied strike 3 and the OUT is recorded.

I did have this happen in a game I was umpiring. I was BU and we had a U3K with 2 outs and R1 (maybe others but they are irrelevant). PU called her OUT and as she ran to 1B I echoed, but the defense was smart enough to throw the BR out at 1B so no harm no foul other than a little chirping from offensive dugout about there being 2 outs. I learned my lesson.

In this sitch, I think I would be inclined to live and die with the call. The PU called OUT for the 3rd out. The same as calling a fair ball foul or the inadvertent whistle in football. However, if the ball was at the backstop, probably going to let BR have 1B and advance other runners only 1 base.

Just my .02.