First time for me

[UmpJM]

Mike,

Apparently, I didn't make my point very clearly. I will "stipulate" that it is technically incorrect to consider this a TOP award, because, as you suggest, it is properly and technically a TOT award.

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

OK, that part's just completely untrue...

Bear with me a minute, but my statement was absolutely true within the rules of baseball.

When a ball is thrown out of play by the defense, runners are awarded 2 bases. The "starting point" for the award is either TOP or TOT. So, regardless of the circumstances, any R2 or R3 is awarded home. The BR is going to get either 2B, or, if he had already reached 1B at the time the wild throw was released, 3B - regardless of whether he became a runner on a batted ball or a pitch that was ball 4 or an U3K.

So, unless you've got an R1, the TOP/TOT distinction is not material to ruling on the play in this sitch.

If you DID have an R1, and he fell down or was stealing & the batter hit a fly ball that he thought would be caught and was returning, or something like that, and both the BR & R1 were between 1B and 2B at the time the throw was released, then the distinction would matter - oh, wait. No, it wouldn't.

I understand that there ARE scenarios where the TOP/TOT ditinction could make a difference in determining awards. But I'd be hard pressed to come up with a scenario where the ball stayed in the infield and it mattered. I guess a run-down could do it, but, it'll be obvious.

JM