There's No Cheating in Baseball.......

[grunewar]

Ted Lilly a cheater?

5/28 - Casey Blake accused [Lilly] of cheating on Thursday, trying unsuccessfully to persuade the umpires that the Chicago Cubs pitcher should have been cited for starting his windup on some pitches from in front of the rubber. "I know he doesn't have an overpowering fastball," Blake said. "I know he's trying to get as much of an edge as he can. But he moved in. "That's cheating. You've got to stay on the rubber."

Lilly did not hesitate to fire back. "Sometimes a batter will get in the box and he'll step out, and behind the box, and on the lines," Lilly said. "I don't think he's trying to cheat. It might not be intentional."


Now - I'm not sure about the pitching rubber thing, but do you enforce the batter's box? You see this kind of issue quite often in the pros when the first player up wipes it away....... cheating or just part of the game?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Now - I'm not sure about the pitching rubber thing, but do you enforce the batter's box? You see this kind of issue quite often in the pros when the first player up wipes it away....... cheating or just part of the game?

At higher levels, if the catcher doesn't care, I don't care (within some reason). If the catcher points it out, I'll have the batter move.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Now - I'm not sure about the pitching rubber thing, but do you enforce the batter's box? You see this kind of issue quite often in the pros when the first player up wipes it away....... cheating or just part of the game?

Yes and no. I'm with Bob for the batter establishing his stance. Some also complain that the batter steps out when he swings. That's generally not something either umpire can see if he's doing his job. If a LH batter is 3 steps toward 1B on a drag bunt and has both feet out of the box, I'll get that, of course.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by grunewar

but do you enforce the batter's box?

Enforce what about the batter's box? That could mean a lot of things.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Enforce what about the batter's box? That could mean a lot of things.

"Sometimes a batter will get in the box and he'll step out, and behind the box, and on the lines."

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by grunewar

"Sometimes a batter will get in the box and he'll step out, and behind the box, and on the lines."

The lines are part of the box. Most times, the catcher will say something if the batter is OUTSIDE the box. If he doesn't, then I don't care. I have more important things to be watching for than the starting point of the batter's feet.

[MD Longhorn]

if we're still talking about MLB here, I don't think that happens that often. Being ON the lines is nothing anyway. If they are so far back they are actually out of the original box, a good MLB curve across the front of the plate is nearly unhittable.

In our games ... if I see someone not in the box before the pitch, I tell them to get in it. If that's what you mean by "enforce", then yeah.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

If they are so far back they are actually out of the original box, a good MLB curve across the front of the plate is nearly unhittable.

It also can't be called a strike, since F2 will be too far back to get it before it bounces.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

There is no crying, , in baseball either, .

MTD, Sr.

[BK47]

hum, thats actually kind of funny about the batters box. I had a HS game a few years ago where the batter had one foot completely outside the box, smacked a good base hit but once he reached first and all playing stopped I called him out. The OC was pissed but I explained why I called him out. After that I had talked to some other experienced Ump's and they told me how to use common sense and do whats called as "Preventative Umpiring". Since then if I saw something like that I would casually have the batter get both feet in.

Besides that however as I was also told, we have more important things to worry about than if his feet are in the box. Dont worry about it so much unless, like most of you have already mentioned, the catcher says something.

With that, last night I was working a game with a guy in a 13yrold Tourney. You guessed it, "Daddy Ball" with HS rules. Let the fun begin. One team after every ball pitched the batter would get completely out of the box, didnt matter if the ball was fouled or just a pitch, the batter would get completely out of the box to take signs from the 3rd base coach. The umpire, my partner, after a couple of innings of this decided to tell the HC of the offending team to have his players keep at least one foot in the box because they were slowing down the game. To make a long story short the coach got pissy with him and PU threw him out. The coaches on that team were like "We know HS rules and thats the first time we ever heard of that one....blah blah blah...." Well again, welcome to "Daddy Ball", if they knew the rules then they would know that in HS, at least in Illinois HS, the rule says you have to keep at least one foot in the batters box at all times unless time is called, a foul ball and so on.

I told my partner after the game how I would have handeled it. Just to tell the first couple of batters in the first inning to please keep a foot in the box at all times. After the first inning, just a casual meeting with the HC to let his batters know to keep a foot in the box and let it go at that. But he let it drag out to the 3rd or 4th inning thats why the pissing match.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BK47

hum, thats actually kind of funny about the batters box. I had a HS game a few years ago where the batter had one foot completely outside the box, smacked a good base hit but once he reached first and all playing stopped I called him out. The OC was pissed but I explained why I called him out. After that I had talked to some other experienced Ump's and they told me how to use common sense and do whats called as "Preventative Umpiring". Since then if I saw something like that I would casually have the batter get both feet in.

You made 2 mistakes here:

1. If you saw the batter set up with a foot entirely outside the box, you must call time and fix it. That's completely on you.

2. You called the batter out. For what? Are you CERTAIN that his foot was touching the ground COMPLETELY outside the box (not touching any of the line) at the MOMENT he struck the ball? Maybe he lifted his foot a little when he hit the ball?

If you were watching his feet then you weren't watching the pitch. If you're doing your job (as either PU or BU) you cannot see this infraction, except maybe where the batter gets a running start at a bunt.

Having a foot out of the box during the pitch is not illegal. Having a foot out of the box after hitting the ball is not illegal. No umpire (in 2 umpire mechanics) can see the infraction here. Hence the importance of getting the batter set up correctly in the box.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BK47

I told my partner after the game how I would have handeled it. Just to tell the first couple of batters in the first inning to please keep a foot in the box at all times. After the first inning, just a casual meeting with the HC to let his batters know to keep a foot in the box and let it go at that. But he let it drag out to the 3rd or 4th inning thats why the pissing match.

Why tell them that? That's not the rule. A batter is permitted to leave the box after swinging at a pitch (strike or foul ball), when a pitch drives him out of the box, during a dead ball, when F1 or F2 feints or attempts a play, when F2 misses a pitch, and several other things.

Perhaps if you learned the rule (OBR 6.02d, NFHS 7-3-1) you could enforce (and teach) it correctly.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by BK47

hum, thats actually kind of funny about the batters box. I had a HS game a few years ago where the batter had one foot completely outside the box, smacked a good base hit but once he reached first and all playing stopped I called him out.

That's an immediate dead ball - why did you wait?

[RogersUmp]

When I have younger youth ball games I mention it to the coaches in the pregrame to have the batters keep a foot in the box to take signals to keep our game moving along. At about 14 or 15yrs old I don't need to say anything about staying in the box.