Foul pop

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Michael,

Why do you think this should be treated any differently than:

This is from the MLBUM discussion of a runner being hit by a deflected batted ball, but I would think the same principle would apply - with equity.

JM

John, I apologize in advance for the length of this post. I've tried to cut it down.

I certainly understand why you see an analogy here: we have two instances of a player being hit by a batted ball. And the MLBUM even uses the helpful expression "intentional interference" (which is not, of course, a term from the rule book).

I'm going to stick to FED, however, assuming that Zoochy's OP concerns a play in a FED game. For now I'm ignoring different codes (I don't do NCAA; ask me again in summer about OBR ).

With that said, I would suggest that your question is ambiguous. You've asked why we treat a runner (including BR) contacted by a batted ball in fair ground (call this R-INT) differently than a batter contacted by a batted ball in foul ground (call this B-INT).

If you're asking why WE treat the two cases differently, I can answer that as a baseball umpire. We treat the cases differently because the rules do. According to 8-4-2k, we call R-INT when the runner "is contacted by a fair batted ball" (before it touches an infielder, etc. etc.). This rule clearly puts the burden on the runner to get out of the way, and negligence is still R-INT. No intentional act required: if he fails to get out of the way (etc. etc.), he's out.

The standard for B-INT is different: according to 7-4-1i, we call B-INT when the batter "intentionally deflects a foul ball which has a chance of becoming fair." This rule provides a narrower standard: merely being contacted by the batted ball does NOT constitute B-INT. An intentional act of actively deflecting the ball is required: if he merely fails to get out of the way, he's not out, and it's a foul ball.

OTOH, if you're asking why the RULES treat the cases differently, then I have to answer that as a baseball theorist, since that's a question about the intentions of the rules makers. I would speculate (and that's what theorists do) that the difference lies in the status of the ball. With R-INT, we KNOW it's a fair ball, and we're giving the defense every chance to field it. With B-INT, in contrast, we do NOT know that it's a fair ball.

Or maybe that's wrong: maybe the rules makers are thinking about the difference between a runner and a batter: R-INT applies to runners, who have nothing better to do than to get the hell out of the way of batted balls, fielders, etc. B-INT applies to batters, who are busy at the plate.

Or maybe both? Speculation's a b!tch.

I will also note that 7-4-1i seems to presuppose that the status of the ball is foul simply because it has touched foul ground. After all, a "foul ball which has a chance of becoming fair" isn't really foul, is it -- at least, not till it touches the batter standing in foul ground!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mbyron

The standard for B-INT is different: according to 7-4-1i, we call B-INT when the batter "intentionally deflects a foul ball which has a chance of becoming fair." This rule provides a narrower standard: merely being contacted by the batted ball does NOT constitute B-INT. An intentional act of actively deflecting the ball is required: if he merely fails to get out of the way, he's not out, and it's a foul ball.

I think you're being too narrow on "intent". It doesn't (imo) require an active movement to get in the way or provide a new impetus to the ball. It can include a concious decision to stay put and prevent the ball from completing it's previous path and motion. "unintentional" would include not having time to react, or trying to avoid but failing; other action are not "unintentional", they are "intentional".

It's much the same as a batter getting hit by a pitch -- if the batter has time to move and just stands there, and watches the ball hit him, we don't (or shouldn't) give the base. I'd apply the same general principles in the play at hand.