4th Out Appeal

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that the coach knows the runners left early?

Is there any doubt that he has let the umpires know that he thinks the runners left early?

So why isn't that unmistakable?

Can a coach do a dead ball appeal in FED?

The WHY deny the "appeal"? Seems to me people are somehow requiring the coach to utter some magic phrase about it.

I agree that no "magic phrase" is required. Heck, if I see / hear a coach trying to get his team to appeal, I'll often just ask, "Coach, what are you trying to do?"

In the OP, however, it is NOT clear to me that the coach knew both runners left early.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I agree that no "magic phrase" is required. Heck, if I see / hear a coach trying to get his team to appeal, I'll often just ask, "Coach, what are you trying to do?"

In the OP, however, it is NOT clear to me that the coach knew both runners left early.

And to me that's the key: it's clear THAT he wants to appeal, but not clear WHICH runner he's appealing.

[Rich Ives]

Bob and mbyron

1) I did say it was confusing

2) On the other hand, the OP did say the coach used runners (plural) both times.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Bob and mbyron

1) I did say it was confusing

2) On the other hand, the OP did say the coach used runners (plural) both times.

So he was appeaing two runners at the same time?

[jkumpire]

If he was appealing 2 runners, he can't in one sentence as far as I'm comncerned. the appeal has to be specific, does it not? Or are we going to allow "I appeal everyone on base left too early and missed a base", then letting me chose who to call out?

Further, sometime in this sequence the OP said the defense left the field, I believe after the first out was given on appeal. Once the defense leaves, as you all well know, it's not possible for further appeals.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

So he was appeaing two runners at the same time?

and jkumpire too:

You mean I can't say, in one sentence, "I'm appealing that R2 and R3 both left early"?


You expect me to believe that's not valid?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

and jkumpire too:

You mean I can't say, in one sentence, "I'm appealing that R2 and R3 both left early"?


You expect me to believe that's not valid?

I would say that's valid. I'd also say jk's example *might* be valid. I can see in my minds eye a play where it is valid, and a play where the coach is just fishing, or using it as an opportunity to "complain" about the umpiring, etc. In that instance, I would make him be more specific, and then begin to deny the complaints as allowed (and then, likely, have to run the manager).

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

and jkumpire too:

You mean I can't say, in one sentence, "I'm appealing that R2 and R3 both left early"?

Is that what he said?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Is that what he said?

He said:

"If he was appealing 2 runners, he can't in one sentence as far as I'm comncerned."

Or is my English comprehension somehow lacking?

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

and jkumpire too:

You mean I can't say, in one sentence, "I'm appealing that R2 and R3 both left early"?


You expect me to believe that's not valid?

Rich,

Having given your question some thought, I believe I would not accept two appeals in one sentence.

The reason is, there are situations where the "order of appeals" could have a material impact on the game, depending on the sequnce they were made.

I would not want any ambiguity regarding that sequence. So if a coach WERE to make a "compound appeal sentence" (assuming we're in a FED game, and Time has been called), I'd simply say something like, "Let's take it one at a time, Rich. What would you like to appeal?"

JM

[Rich Ives]

The OP:

Runners on 1st and 3rd with 1 out. Trouble ball to center, both runners take off and great catch is made. Problem was BU did not do a good job letting everyone know there was a catch which warrants a reminder to all, make sure to sell that play because it only leads to trouble later. Anyway coach calls time and goes to BU and ask "was there a catch and if so why didn't runners tag"? BU comes to me and coach follows and BU looks at me like "what now?" I ask BU did he have a catch, said yes. Coach says what about runners leaving earlier and I say we had no appeal...

By the OP, everybody in the park knows rthe runners left early.