HBP: Pitcher and Batter both ejected

[Scotty73]

Basically both pitcher and batter are tossed after a HBP but there is a runner needed on first base.

Does the new Pitcher have to be announced first?

or

the new Runner on first?

Question came up..

What if an offensive team would want to use a speed guy off their bench and the pitcher was good at holding runners.

Trying to find MLB rule section that covers this..

[GA Umpire]

Once the pitcher gets on the mound, he is announced.

Once the runner gets on the base, he is announced.

Announcing it to the umpire before hand is merely a formality. And, is especially important when double switches are made.

In this case, as long as the ones being chosen are not a rules violation such as illegal substitution, then they can enter the game without directly going through the umpire. Rule 3.08(a) for OBR.

[Scotty73]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

Once the pitcher gets on the mound, he is announced.

Once the runner gets on the base, he is announced.

Announcing it to the umpire before hand is merely a formality. And, is especially important when double switches are made.

In this case, as long as the ones being chosen are not a rules violation such as illegal substitution, then they can enter the game without directly going through the umpire. Rule 3.08(a) for OBR.

Thanks for the response. I understand Rule 3.08(a). But if two players are ejected after a brawl, who must enter the game first? Is it first out? First in?

[UmpJM]

Scotty,

The question you are asking is a "point not covered" - in any of the three major rule sets, or any of the respected interpretation books.

So, you get to decide.

Were I actually presented with this situation in a game, I would be inclined to require that the player who would replace the player whose action was first worthy of ejection be named first.

Or, maybe I'd just make the coach who was making an issue of it name his replacement first. Depends.

I suppose you could also make the HT name their replacement first because they give you their lineup first (at the plate meeting), or make the defense name their replacement first. You could go a lot of ways.

But I think "A" would be best.

JMO.

JM

[Scotty73]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Scotty,

The question you are asking is a "point not covered" - in any of the three major rule sets, or any of the respected interpretation books.

So, you get to decide.

Were I actually presented with this situation in a game, I would be inclined to require that the player who would replace the player whose action was first worthy of ejection be named first.

Or, maybe I'd just make the coach who was making an issue of it name his replacement first. Depends.

I suppose you could also make the HT name their replacement first because they give you their lineup first (at the plate meeting), or make the defense name their replacement first. You could go a lot of ways.

But I think "A" would be best.

JMO.

JM

Thank you... that was the explanation I needed.

[batboy22]

I like the part about making the manager/coach who was complaining pick first.

But I would make the defensive manager/coach pick first because we need to get a new pitcher warming up asap.

[jicecone]

This is where I get to remove my indiclickacounter and expose it to sunlight after all these years. Numbers up, defense first, Numbers down, offense first.
"Coach, do you want to kick-off or receive, otherwise lets get moving."

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by batboy22

But I would make the defensive manager/coach pick first because we need to get a new pitcher warming up asap.

That's my vote.

[bob jenkins]

Another option is to have each manager give you the sub without being informed of the other team's sub. Then, announce them both at the same time.

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by Scotty73

Thanks for the response. I understand Rule 3.08(a). But if two players are ejected after a brawl, who must enter the game first? Is it first out? First in?

OK. I misread the question when first presented.

This is one of those things that it is up to the umpire. Depends on the situation.

If I felt the pitcher did throw at him deliberately, I would make the DC announce first.
If I felt the batter overreacted, the OC first.

If they both were at fault for the situation, then it comes down to how the managers handle things. And, if they handle things properly, then it is a toss up of who you want to do it.

I think that would be my approach. This is one of those things that no 2 umpires will approach each situation the same.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Another option is to have each manager give you the sub without being informed of the other team's sub. Then, announce them both at the same time.

As long as we're exploring the logical space: I'll just pick the subs.

[Durham]

I would say if they wanted to make a big deal of it, I would require a sub in the order that I handed out ejections. I would probably eject the pitcher first in a throwing situations, so he would have to be replaced first.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Man, this is a good one. I will put this on the checklist of things I look forward to having a chance to deal with.

And I can immediately think of two local little b!tchboy coaches that would argue something like this if they could. (Why are b!tchboy coaches always little?)

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Scotty73

What if an offensive team would want to use a speed guy off their bench ..

Depends on the game situation.

Maybe you just want to put in the player that will replace the ousted batter in the field.

Maybe you want the speed guy.

Doesn't really matter too much who the pitcher will be.

[AirSocata]

I am inclined to like the idea of making the coach that is complaining the most pick first.

That said, I think the two ways to choose that are fair and removing your discretion which can always be argued against is one to take the "first out, first in" method. If you can not determine who was tossed first, than make them both give you their choices without knowing what the other has chosen and that is what it is.