Rules Test

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by scarolinablue

What dash said...

For whatever reason (my eighth year of FED ball and I still don't know the reason behind it...maybe lawump will read this and chime in...) we do not do appeals in South Carolina. If we see an appealable play, we call it. The burden is not on the defense to appeal, it is done automatically (assuming it is seen by the umpire).

That used to be the FED rule. The reasoning was that in no other sport did the official note an infraction and wait to be told about it by the offended team before ruling on it.

FED changed the rule, but SC stuck with the "old" rule.

[scarolinablue]

Thanks for the (amazingly) simple explanation, Bob. It really isn't 2010 here in the Palmetto State!

[jicecone]

I had my doubts about a lot of things down here in the Louisiana, when I moved here a couple of years ago but, I feel a lot better now.

Don't tell me they did not adopt the pitchers ability to turn there shoulders before coming set also.

Well truely, when in Rome ...............!

[scarolinablue]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Don't tell me they did not adopt the pitchers ability to turn there shoulders before coming set also.

Nope, just the appeal rule. Though the gorilla arm is getting a lot of talk in our meetings this year.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by scarolinablue

...we'll have fun and a likely ejection, since we don't do appeals in FED ball. Don't ask me why, we just don't...if we see it, we call it. If we don't, we don't. In the case of this play, we'll likely be ejecting the OC after explaining to him why his run will not count. Or, ejecting the DC if U1 didn't see the B/R miss first base from the C and the DC saw it...

Do you actually have a rule about the order of the calls? Presumably the runner from second missed third before the batter-runner missed first; but what if it didn't happen in that order?
________
INFANT ZOLOFT

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by youngump

Do you actually have a rule about the order of the calls? Presumably the runner from second missed third before the batter-runner missed first; but what if it didn't happen in that order?

It's the order of the appeals that matters, not the order in which the infractions occurred.

[dash_riprock]

Except in SC where there are no appeals. The ump is supposed to call it right away. It would have to be in the order in which the infractions occurred.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Except in SC where there are no appeals. The ump is supposed to call it right away. It would have to be in the order in which the infractions occurred.

The "old" FED rule had the infractions called at the end of playing action (not "right away") and the defense could choose the order that gave them the advantage.

I assume SC is still the same way.

[scarolinablue]

Yes, we call them at the end of playing action.

[lawump]

SCarolina Blue is 100% correct. There are no appeal plays in South Carolina high school baseball.

I won't elaborate, but the reason has to do with some high ranking persons in the state who had some hurt feelings and refused to go along with the FED when it changed its rules to adopt an appeal rule 10 years ago, or so.

While I always had a good relationship with the assistant director in charge of baseball who just retired, the fact is that he refused to change the state high school league's stance on this rule. However, now that he is retired, as President of one of, if not, the largest high school umpires association in the state, I am lobbying hard to adopt the appeal rule for 2011.

I can state positively that every high school umpire association's "official position" is exactly the same: that the rule should be employed in SC.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The "old" FED rule had the infractions called at the end of playing action (not "right away") and the defense could choose the order that gave them the advantage.

I assume SC is still the same way.

Wow - that could get interesting. So the miss wasn't even announced 'til playing action was over? That could cause the defense to make a play on a runner who was already (soon to be) out.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Wow - that could get interesting. So the miss wasn't even announced 'til playing action was over? That could cause the defense to make a play on a runner who was already (soon to be) out.

That's no (or at least not much) different from the current appeal rule. And, iirc, the defense could make a live-ball appeal during playing action (just as they can now) if they so chose.

[dash_riprock]

Well don't I feel stupid. Maybe I should put that crack pipe down once in a while.

[lawump]

Going back to the original post in this thread: we actually discussed that situation in our rules meeting on Sunday.

I asked the group, "what would happen in South Carolina?" Everyone quickly agreed that we would call the runners out in the order that we saw them miss the bases. (If we saw R2 miss third before the B/R missed first, then we would call them out in that order and no run would score).

Everyone seemed quite satisfied with that answer until I (as the discussion moderator) pointed out that the plate umpire would have the responsibility of seeing the touch/no touch at third base, while the base umpire would have that responsibility at first base.

Suddenly the room got very quiet. I took the temporary silence as an opportunity to further point out that if the umpires are doing their jobs, how exactly are we going to determine which occurred first if they occurred at or near the same time?

After which I saw a lot of blank faces in the room. I then told them if they have this play, when they get home they will have to go to this link on the South Carolina High School League website: On Line Ejection Form - All Sports.

This is another reason we need the appeal play in SC. Because with the appeal play, the defense determines the order of outs, not the umpires.

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by lawump

when they get home they will have to go to this link on the South Carolina High School League website: On Line Ejection Form - All Sports.

At least you were honest!!!