Question on dropped thrid strike

[rinbee]

This has been bugging me since las season and I'd like your thoughts. In a senior BB game, less tha 2 out, runner on first. Catcher drops the thrid strike and BR runs to first. He cannot advance in this situation, but he runs, the pitcher overthrows the firstbaseman and the runner on first advances to third. I call the batter out and allow the runner to stay at third because the ball was not dead and he advanced because of the stupidity of the defensive team. Between you and me, was I right?

[Skarecrow]

Originally Posted by rinbee

This has been bugging me since las season and I'd like your thoughts. In a senior BB game, less tha 2 out, runner on first. Catcher drops the thrid strike and BR runs to first. He cannot advance in this situation, but he runs, the pitcher overthrows the firstbaseman and the runner on first advances to third. I call the batter out and allow the runner to stay at third because the ball was not dead and he advanced because of the stupidity of the defensive team. Between you and me, was I right?

You're right, but I am always yelling as loudly as possible..."Batter's out! Batter's out!" Still their bad, either way, if they throw....they should know the game play situation as well as the ump.....

[Steelers]

I am new to this forum, have been on to see some of the unique situations that occur during some ball games. I have umped baseball at several levels over the past 25 years. I would say your call was correct. Though some may claim the BR ran to first in order to confuse the defense. But it can also be said the defense must also be aware of the situation. Very curious what some of the other umps on this forum say about the play

Steelers

[dash_riprock]

The act of running to 1st is not interference.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

The act of running to 1st is not interference.

And, more generally, a runner who is out who continues around the bases is not INT.

I will announce that the batter is out, but I won't make a big show of it. Up to the defense to know this, esp. at HS level and up.

[Kevin Finnerty]

How about the guy who's already out on strikes, but runs--clearly inside the foul line--and the unnecessary throw hits him and bounces away, allowing R1 and R2 to advance two bases?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

How about the guy who's already out on strikes, but runs--clearly inside the foul line--and the unnecessary throw hits him and bounces away, allowing R1 and R2 to advance two bases?

Tough luck for the defense.

[Steelers]

I don't believe a runner who has been declared out can continue to run the basepaths.

[Tim C]

"I don't believe a runner who has been declared out can continue to run the basepaths. "

Therefore your "belief" is incorrect.

R2
Less then two outs
Batter hits fly ball to F8
F8 clearly makes the catch for the out
BR continues to run all the way to second base
F8 confused throws the ball to F4 but the throw goes awry
R2 then takes off successfully gets around 3rd and heads for home and beats a throw as Br
R runs towards third.

All completely legal.

Runners on base do not have to disappear after being called out.

[Steelers]

I agree with that play and also agree a runner declared out can't just dissapear. But on the same play...
1) BR is out on a clearly caught ball,
2)F8 throws to F4 and there is the slightest bit of contact with BR (who is clearly beeen called out
3)now we do have interference

[BretMan]

The three-foot running lane specifically applies to a batter-runner. A batter who has been retired does not meet the definition of a batter-runner.

To be guilty of interference, an offensive player must to something that prevents the defense from making a play. Since this offensive player has already been retired, a throw to first base is moot- he can't be "retired" a second time. There is no play to be made upon this offensive player, thus no interference.

The act of continuing to run the bases after being put out isn't in and of itself inerference. Being hit by a throw that wasn't part of a legitimate play is not interference. A retired batter or runner might be guilty of interference by means of some other action that actually hinders a play, like purposely contacting a thrown ball or crashing into a fielder trying to make a catch or a throw. But until that happens- no blood, no foul.

[johnnyg08]

Using what rule?

[BigTex]

Originally Posted by JJ

I've still got interference.

JJ

Who will you call out? Where will you place runners?

[Forest Ump]

We don't coach. It's incumbent upon the defense to know the situation. They have to know when to throw to first. They have to know when the infield fly is in effect. They have to know how to properly appeal. etc. If they don't know how to play the game, I'm not going to reward them with outs that are not in the rule book.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Tough luck for the defense.

That play was the genesis of my first winning argument as an umpire.

After the coach fired his initial blast, I remember saying, "He's already out Dick; the throw was unnecessary!" (I don't recall his real first name that I used at the time, so I'll just call him by the first name that comes to mind.) That was all I had a chance to say, and the guy went off again. He was beside himself. It was a real $hitstorm, but I was green, and I had my mentor on my shoulder whispering at me to keep the coach in the game.