Dropped Third Strike Question

[starman]

Can somebody help me out with what I think should be a simple MLB rules question? First Base is occupied, no outs. Strike three goes past the catcher and to the backstop. Is the batter out or does he have the option of running to first base?

[UmpJM]

starman,

The batter is out! There is nothing stopping him from starting to run to 1B, but he is already out, nonetheless, and nothing is going to change that fact.

6.05
A batter is out when_ ... (c) A third strike is not caught by the catcher when first base is occupied before two are out;

JM

[EMD]

At lower level baseball if the batter swings I point with my right hand and say "Attempt, batter out." Say it so thet batter & cathcer will hear you, and the catcher will know that he is out. If something odd happens after that you, the catcher & batter know better.

If I am working the plate with a jr. umpire, or someone who is having a bad day this seems to help them from getting themselves in trouble while on the bases.

[Tim C]

"I point with my right hand and say "Attempt, batter out.""

EMD, you're such a kidder.

[EMD]

Yes, when I'm working lower level ball, I leave absolutely nothing to chance. Little Johnies dad never know and understands the rule (whom is always the coach) and will forever tell that Johnie to run. And that ball will always get tossed into the outfield creating more trouble that it is worth.

And yes, when I am evaluating (by request only) some kid in East Je’sus ball park, I will request he do this to avoid the above mentioned errors. It has been decided by some of the groups I work with to teach this mechanic so that it will help junior umpires recognize this situation and watch the entire play. Unlike your recent experience, as described in recent post you have the luxury of not working the lower levels and dealing with junior umpires who need non-paid instructions, obviously, when the level of ball is better, we do not do this.

[officialtony]

EMD

Attempt? Batter Out ?

How do you " attempt " when it was stated it WAS strike three and the ball got past the catcher and to the backstop?
The question was not " did he go? ".
The question was about an uncaught third strike.

Why would you say " attempt, he's out " here ?

Tee is right, you must be a great kidder huh?

[tmp44]

Although I disagree with the mechanic that EMD is using, if his association wants him to use that mechanic, verbage, whatever the he!! you want to call it..."when in Rome do what the Romans do..."

That being said, even at lower levels, it is not the umpire's fault if a BR takes off on a dropped 3rd strike or F2 throws the ball to first, either one of which may create havoc. Opening your mouth in this situation, IMO, can only lead to trouble.

[LMan]

my assoc manual states that we are to *forcefully* (their word) call the batter out in this sitch to (attempt to) preclude his running to 1B. Doesn't always work, of course....everyone in the dugout is already yelling, "run! run! run!"

...but I don't think the word, "attempt" is in there...

[jumpmaster]

Originally posted by EMD
At lower level baseball if the batter swings I point with my right hand and say "Attempt, batter out." Say it so thet batter & cathcer will hear you, and the catcher will know that he is out. If something odd happens after that you, the catcher & batter know better.

If I am working the plate with a jr. umpire, or someone who is having a bad day this seems to help them from getting themselves in trouble while on the bases.

May I offer these suggestions:
1) say "Yes he did" instead of "Attempt, batter out." only do so on a check situation, when the pitch is not a strike.
2) In the sitch that started the thread a simple "batter's out" will accomplish the same thing as "Attempt, batter out."

Teach the young ones the standards and what is right. Your intent is good, but if they progress beyond your local sandlot game, their incorrect mechanics will limit their future.

[DG]

I point at the batter with left hand and pump right fist and say "he's out". If the keeps running I pump right fist again and say "he's out" again.

[cowbyfan1]

I give my out signal and yell "batter's out, batter's out". I say it a couple times because as stated before, people are yelling for him to run.

[U_of_I_Blue]

If were' talking 12U age group or lower for rec ball, I'll say "batter's out" on a D3K. If they're older than that, it's time for them to start learning the situation, rules, and strategy of the game. It's no longer my job to make sure that the team knows the situation, it's theirs.

[mcrowder]

dg - Please use the same mechanic regardless of the Batter's actions. If you're going to say "He's out" twice, say it twice for everyone. Saying it once is plenty to convey the necessary information to the players. Repeating it based solely on batter's actions is tantamount to aiding the defense.

[w_sohl]

If first base is occupied the batter can only advance when there are two outs on a dropped third strike. The purpose of not allowing him to advance with less than two outs and 1st base occupied is to prevent the potentially easy double play. Similar thinking as what went into the IFF rule.

[DG]

Originally posted by mcrowder
dg - Please use the same mechanic regardless of the Batter's actions. If you're going to say "He's out" twice, say it twice for everyone. Saying it once is plenty to convey the necessary information to the players. Repeating it based solely on batter's actions is tantamount to aiding the defense.

No thank you. I don't point at the batter when there is no need to, and I don't say it twice when there is no need to. Sometimes they just don't hear well.