Gerry Davis Crew get its right!

[kape]

I agree that it was technically the right call, but it was still imperfect umpiring. The second base umpire signaled out before the shortstop tagged second, but a much quicker out call on the line drive would have avoided the confusion for the base runner.

The first base umpire called Cano safe (when he was already out), so he added to the confusion. I suppose if Matsui had gone back safely to first and then walked off because of the safe call, the umpires would have put him back on first base after their huddle.

Matsui should have been alert and seen the line drive being caught and gone back to first, but this was not a play for which to pat the umpires on the back.

[Kevin Finnerty]

I have Gorman emphatically pumping the out on the catch well before Rollins went to the bag. It was a mess out of a common play, but it was a clear catch, a clear and emphatic signal (50,000 can make too much noise to hear ''catch"), and the eventual tag of the runner that wasn't forced. The Phillies' players played it smart, and it got messy. But unlike some of the calls we've seen lately, the end result was correct.

[PeteBooth]

Kevin I agree but why the long huddle?

This should have taken all of 20 seconds to resolve.

U2 would have said I had an out on the catch by Rollins
U1 would say I have a tag on Matsui off the base

End of huddle. Easy explanation to the coaches.

IMO, the huddle should not have taken that long.

Pete Booth

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by kape

I agree that it was technically the right call, but it was still imperfect umpiring. The second base umpire signaled out before the shortstop tagged second, but a much quicker out call on the line drive would have avoided the confusion for the base runner.

The first base umpire called Cano safe (when he was already out), so he added to the confusion. I suppose if Matsui had gone back safely to first and then walked off because of the safe call, the umpires would have put him back on first base after their huddle.

Matsui should have been alert and seen the line drive being caught and gone back to first, but this was not a play for which to pat the umpires on the back.

Not the 1B ump responsibilty to see if it was trapped or caught. He reacted to the SS going to the bag and then throwing to first. The SS going to the bag confused things.

Imperfect umpiring? What are you talking about? You just said he signaled out before SS tagged the bag. Well that happened approximately 2 nano seconds after he caught the ball. Watching what happens and then signaling is the sign of good umpiring , not imperfect umpiring. Quick decisions, and quick signals get you in trouble.

Its obvious you have spent little time umpiring or playing this game because people do not reacte as fast as you think. Could have, would have, and should have is only realty when being an armchair umpire.

[Kevin Finnerty]

I guess Gorman pumping the out three times before Rollins touched the bag is not enough for some. Maybe if he jumped up and down?

[Ump Rube]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I guess Gorman pumping the out three times before Rollins touched the bag is not enough for some.

Gorman only got a fist and half a pump in before the touch. He did get 3-4 pumps in before the catch at 1B. I put this out there knowing a flood of negative will probably come my way for it, but...

Wouldn't it have helped if Gorman had pointed in the direction of the catch, instead of just using the fist pump? I know some will see this as possibly calling a trap, but technically the signal for that would be a safe.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Not the 1B ump responsibilty to see if it was trapped or caught.

No, but he should know the status of the ball. If he did, he would not have called Cano safe.

As others have said, Gorman sold the crap out of the catch. If the ball had been trapped, I'm sure he would have given a safe (no-catch) signal followed by an out on the force.

I think U1's call on Cano may have confused Matsui into believing he was no longer entitled to 1st base, and he was out on a force at 2nd. I'm not trying to excuse his poor baserunning, but I don't think it was a good job by U1. He should have known it was a caught fly. He has to watch the play at 1st, but Gorman's catch call was well before anything was happening at 1st base (watch the ball, glance at the runners).

I also agree with Pete - why did it take so long? Unless they were considering putting Matsui on 1st because his confusion resulted from U1's call on Cano.

[Kevin Finnerty]

I'm with you. U1 should have read the out on the batter and not signaled anything on the play at first. Matsui was dead anyway.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

I don't know how you would say that. I think his assessment is pretty accurate, other than wanting a quicker call.

It's pretty obvious to me that you judge rather quickly.

Let's see here...I made a statement that is very similar to the following statement, but you chose only to comment about what I said, and gave jicecone a pass. What's up with that?

Originally Posted by jicecone

Its obvious you have spent little time umpiring or playing this game because people do not react as fast as you think. Could have, would have, and should have is only realty when being an armchair umpire.

Sounds like he said the same thing, only in a nicer way. Calling it "imperfect umpiring" gave me insight into his umpiring ability and/or experience, that's how I could say what I did, and I stand behind what I said.

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

What was he looking at then? If he would have read the play and his partner, he could have gotten into position for a possible appeal play if there had been one. There should have been a no call on Cano. Since he made a call on Cano, I believe that's why the meeting took a bit longer than usual. The question of "where do we put Matsui?" It was obvious to me that U2 made a call on the catch versus the front end of the double play. Maybe it wasn't as obvious 90 ft away to U1. Since he wasn't looking at the catch, I wonder what his reaction would have been if the SS threw directly to F3 in order to double up Matsui? I would think it would be better to react to the play and your partner rather than the players.

I think Umpmazza meant to say "shouldn't have signaled safe." Probably an error of omission rather than commission.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Let's see here...I made a statement that is very similar to the following statement, but you chose only to comment about what I said, and gave jicecone a pass. What's up with that?


Sounds like he said the same thing, only in a nicer way. Calling it "imperfect umpiring" gave me insight into his umpiring ability and/or experience, that's how I could say what I did, and I stand behind what I said.

I think Umpmazza meant to say "shouldn't have signaled safe." Probably an error of omission rather than commission.

Actually Steve, I thought it may come across politically incorrect, so I let you say it.

But I can not lie, I did thunk it.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Hey, let's hear it for Jeff Nelson, who works the scissors stance! Yeah, scissors!!!

No scissor bashing allowed tonight, all you haters!


Me, circa 1992:

[Matt]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Hey, let's hear it for Jeff Nelson, who works the scissors stance! Yeah, scissors!!!

No scissor bashing allowed tonight, all you haters!


Me, circa 1992:

I'll bash the scissors whenever I want. However...

Keep in mind, I wasn't even old enough to be a batboy for that game in 1992.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Hey, let's hear it for Jeff Nelson, who works the scissors stance! Yeah, scissors!!!

No scissor bashing allowed tonight, all you haters!


Me, circa 1992:

Nice fence.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Ump153

Nice fence.

Yeah, my wife took pictures like Mona Lisa Vito.

I had somebody shoot some nice action photos of me at a game a few weeks back, but they never emailed them to me. Fans...just can't trust them.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Ump153

Nice fence.

I used to work in places with that kind of fence in front of me....it was much better than the chicken wire in some OTHER places I worked.....

JJ