Umpire overrules judgment call

[BigUmp56]

Steve,

I can tell you what I would have done, for what it's worth. As soon as he called the runner out, I would have headed for the truck, gone home and called the assignor, and let the chips fall where they may. If he's going to make my calls, he doesn't need me out there. But that's because I've been in the associations I belong to for a long time, and don't have to worry about not getting assignments again should something like this ever happen to me. You're probably not in that position yet in this association, so I understand why you didn't walk.


Tim.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Steve,

I can tell you what I would have done, for what it's worth. As soon as he called the runner out, I would have headed for the truck, gone home and called the assignor, and let the chips fall where they may. If he's going to make my calls, he doesn't need me out there. But that's because I've been in the associations I belong to for a long time, and don't have to worry about not getting assignments again should something like this ever happen to me. You're probably not in that position yet in this association, so I understand why you didn't walk.


Tim.

Exactly what I was thinking as I was reading this.

[celebur]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

NO umpire has the right to over-turn a judgement call without you FIRST requesting assistance otherwise the game will become CHAOS.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your meaning. In my association, even if I request assistance, my partner still has no right to overturn my judgement call. He only has the right to privately share what he saw, and I then have a decision to make--either stick with my call or change it.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by celebur

In my association, even if I request assistance, my partner still has no right to overturn my judgement call. He only has the right to privately share what he saw, and I then have a decision to make--either stick with my call or change it.

That's exactly what we are saying. Steve's partner was totally out of line in changing the call. If Steve wanted to change it after talking to his partner (and his partner should wait to be asked for advice), he would have done it himself.

[SanDiegoSteve]

I finally was able to get ahold of my assignor, who agrees with us 100%, and that he was way out of line and has no business even having an opinion without being asked for help. He is planning to umpire with me this weekend just to make sure that it won't happen a second time!

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Steve,

I can tell you what I would have done, for what it's worth. As soon as he called the runner out, I would have headed for the truck, gone home and called the assignor, and let the chips fall where they may.

Tim:

I strongly recommed against leaving.

First things first

If you got paid your game FEE at the plate and then you leave IMO, you must return the game Fee.

I believe we have all worked with partners in which we could not wait until the game was over.

if you are at work and part of a team meeting or any other meeting and one person acts like a jerk are you going to leave the meeting?

IMO, you "suck it up" get through the game as best you can and then "settle things in the parking lot" where it belongs.

I would NOT take the heat though. If the coach(s) came out I would simply say "Go talk to him" PERIOD. I would not even entertain the discussion since my partner over-turned my call.

Most likely as the game continues someone will get tossed because inevitably since the umpires are NOT on the same page words will be said and even if your partner over-tunred your call there is only so much you can let go on before the game gets out of control.

In Summary: You do the best you can under adverse conditions. It's no different then playing the game and you lose one or 2 of your star players. You are playing at a disadvanatge but you "suck it up' and do the best you can.

After the game away from everybody is where you get your point across. I would be "up front' and simply say "Joe I cannot work with you under these type of conditions. You had no right to overturn my call. I am calling the assignor because I cannot work with you." IMO< that's not rating out your partner but telling him "up front" what the deal is. Back-stabbing is when you are chicken s*** do not say anything but then go behind the persons back and rat them out. If I tell someone "mono on mono" that's not back-stabbing.

Pete Booth

[Kevin Finnerty]

I worked with a partner that was unfit to be on the field (a little drunk?? high on weed?? neglected to take his meds??), in addition to having zero honor and zero integrity and a massive ego.

After several glaring incidents, I was going to send him home and finish myself, or suspend the game if he refused to leave. I can handle virtually anything, but this guy was stretching it to the maximum. It was a travesty, and not a ballgame.

I somehow finished the travesty of a game, and somehow avoided a hand and wrist injury when he got in my face in the parking lot (women and children would have seen it).

I deeply regretted not stepping in and sending the guy home before the game even started, but this always-support-your-partner-no-matter-what thing prevailed, and to this day, I haven't even ratted the guy out to the assignor, even though he should be nowhere near a legitimate ballgame (some of the politics are pretty extreme in that assn.).

He's like a weed: he has no place on a baseball field. Guys like him are why I umpire in the first place.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

After the game away from everybody is where you get your point across. I would be "up front' and simply say "Joe I cannot work with you under these type of conditions. You had no right to overturn my call. I am calling the assignor because I cannot work with you." IMO< that's not rating out your partner but telling him "up front" what the deal is. Back-stabbing is when you are chicken s*** do not say anything but then go behind the persons back and rat them out. If I tell someone "mono on mono" that's not back-stabbing.

While I did not tell this guy that I was going to scratch him from future games, or talk to the assignor about it, he should expect it for pulling that kind of crap. I did tell him just how I felt about it and that I wasn't going to huddle up and sing Kumbaya every time I might blow a judgment call. My assignor won't be talking to him either, he just won't put me with him anymore.

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

While I did not tell this guy that I was going to scratch him from future games, or talk to the assignor about it, he should expect it for pulling that kind of crap. I did tell him just how I felt about it and that I wasn't going to huddle up and sing Kumbaya every time I might blow a judgment call. My assignor won't be talking to him either, he just won't put me with him anymore.

Steve,
The sad part is the other official feels he did not do anything wrong. In his eyes, he saved the day from an incompetant umpire. Until all assignors refuse to use him, he will keep on keeping on. He will then find another association and the story will continue.

[jicecone]

When I was assigning, I encouraged the officials to let me know when there were problems on the field with coaches , parents, officials etc. When it was with another official I would call and get his side of the story and let him know what was expected of him by the association. There were times officials were given some time off, just to get the point across. Not very often though and it was a board decision.

The bottom line here was, when one umpire looks bad, the entire team looks bad and it reflects negatively on the association. Believe me this is true. As an assignor I would always nip this in the butt real fast. This is where training, evaluation and meetings become an intragal part of your organization and when handled properly you weed out those that want to do their own thing.

[UmpJM]

What Steve's partner did was unacceptable.

I thought his response to his partner's idiocy was "dead on" and highly professional. I would feel like doing as some have suggested - walking off, find an opportunity to throw him under the bus, etc. - but that just makes you look bad.

Steve got through the game, maintained his dignity, and addressed the issue directly with his partner after the game and then his assignor. (Were it me, I would be disappointed that the assignor was not planning on addressing it.)

In the real world, seems to me the best way to deal with it.

JM

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Steve got through the game, maintained his dignity, and addressed the issue directly with his partner after the game and then his assignor. (Were it me, I would be disappointed that the assignor was not planning on addressing it.)

I would love it if he did address it, but as a newbie with a new assignor, I don't want to push it too far. I like the assignments I get.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Steve,

I can tell you what I would have done, for what it's worth. As soon as he called the runner out, I would have headed for the truck, gone home and called the assignor, and let the chips fall where they may. If he's going to make my calls, he doesn't need me out there. But that's because I've been in the associations I belong to for a long time, and don't have to worry about not getting assignments again should something like this ever happen to me. You're probably not in that position yet in this association, so I understand why you didn't walk.


Tim.

For the one "offence" as in the OP, I would not walk off. I would work the game but I wouldn't take any crap for his changing my call. I would make sure that every call I made was on the money. I would in position and professional because I would not be going to him for any assistance of any kind.

However, if he did it again after that, I would defiantly huddle with him and inform him that he has proven to me that he no longer needs me and I would leave. As far as the game fee goes, to hell with that! That is my compensation for dealing with this moron.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

For the one "offence" as in the OP, I would not walk off. I would work the game but I wouldn't take any crap for his changing my call. I would make sure that every call I made was on the money. I would in position and professional because I would not be going to him for any assistance of any kind.

However, if he did it again after that, I would defiantly huddle with him and inform him that he has proven to me that he no longer needs me and I would leave. As far as the game fee goes, to hell with that! That is my compensation for dealing with this moron.

Had it been a situation where the partner just stepped up and overturned the call, I would agree that like you, Ozzy, I would have stayed. But as it went down:

"Me: But that's my call, and I'm willing to live with it if I blew the call. I'm not asking for you to take the call."

Partner: Well, I'm going to make the out call and I'll take any crap they give about it."



I would have walked in a heartbeat. What the guy did after Steve told him he wasn't asking for him to take the call was basically telling Steve -

"F*&$k off, I'm doing it anyway."

He obviously doesn't need me on the field.............


Tim.

[jicecone]

Tim, I could agree if that was the only reason you were there, to compete with your partner. And believe me, there have been contests that I would have gladly returned the money and left because of the ahole I was working with. But, when you ask for assignments and receive them, you are basically entering into a contract to officiate a baseball game, for which you receive compensation. By walking off that field, you look just as bad as your partner in the eyes of the players, coaches and fans. You can't lower your professional standards just because your working with an idiot.

I walked off of a field once, with my partner and that was because we were being abused constantly in an adult league and felt that our efforts were futile and our safety was jeapordized. The money could still be on the pitchers mound for all we know, and our association backed us up 100%.

Just remember, you don't just represent yourself out there, and that same "ego" that is necessary to be a good official sometimes has to be tempered when things don't go your way.

But I can respect were your coming from.