WTF Just Happened at 3rd NY vs LAA

[grunewar]

Today on ESPN's Around the Horn, Kevin Blackistone said, "The best thing to happen to sports is television - unless you're an official."

[buckyswider]

Now how about this for call #2 (the "two runners on third" play.)

U3 says he thought that R2 was touching third when tagged. R3 retreated to and past third. If that's what he thought he saw, at this point shouldn't R2 have been declarded out for passing, and then R3 out when tagged?

[tibear]

Originally Posted by buckyswider

Now how about this for call #2 (the "two runners on third" play.)

U3 says he thought that R2 was touching third when tagged. R3 retreated to and past third. If that's what he thought he saw, at this point shouldn't R2 have been declarded out for passing, and then R3 out when tagged?

Exactly what I was thinking....

Another angle.....Why is Cano protected from being tagged out if the Tim believes he is touching third base? It doesn't belong to him, it belongs to Posada. Does third protect both Cano AND Posada??

Basically, there should have been two outs regardless of what he "thought" he saw. Cano for being off the bag and being tagged or Cano out for passing Posada AND Posada out for being tagged off the base.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by tibear

Exactly what I was thinking....

Another angle.....Why is Cano protected from being tagged out if the Tim believes he is touching third base? It doesn't belong to him, it belongs to Posada. Does third protect both Cano AND Posada??

Basically, there should have been two outs regardless of what he "thought" he saw. Cano for being off the bag and being tagged or Cano out for passing Posada AND Posada out for being tagged off the base.

No, if Cano had been on the base when tagged, like McClelland thought, he would have been as called, safe. He never passed Posada, and Posada doesn't have a claim to that base until he stands on it, which he never did; he was tagged off the base. So, McClelland, who was screened out on the play, thought Cano was on the base and he could see Posada was off the base, therefore he called Cano safe and Posada out. Only if both runners are tagged while both on the same base does the base belong to the preceding runner.

[tibear]

Steve, I understand what your saying but didn't Posada HAVE to retouch third before he could have attempted to proceed to home plate? This means that if Cano was on third as McClelland thought (which he wasn't) that Cano was technically closer to home plate then Posada?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by tibear

Steve, I understand what your saying but didn't Posada HAVE to retouch third before he could have attempted to proceed to home plate? This means that if Cano was on third as McClelland thought (which he wasn't) that Cano was technically closer to home plate then Posada?

No, Posada had no obligation to retouch 3rd base. He had established his baseline when the catcher tried to tag him. He tried to tag Cano first, so there was no play being made on Posada until after that.

[buckyswider]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

No, Posada had no obligation to retouch 3rd base. He had established his baseline when the catcher tried to tag him. He tried to tag Cano first, so there was no play being made on Posada until after that.

Could you please expand on your interpretation there? My take is that he's then established his baseline between the preceding base (2nd) and 3rd. He has obviously retreated beyond the base at that point- and yes, he did touch the base with his foot.

Thanks.

[Umpmazza]

[QUOTE=tibear;632234]Exactly what I was thinking....

Another angle.....Why is Cano protected from being tagged out if the Tim believes he is touching third base? It doesn't belong to him, it belongs to Posada. Does third protect both Cano AND Posada??

Basically, there should have been two outs regardless of what he "thought" he saw. Cano for being off the bag and being tagged or Cano out for passing Posada AND Posada out for being tagged off the base.[/QUOTE]

When in the heck did they pass each other.. did you watch the play?

[tibear]

[QUOTE=Umpmazza;632269]

Originally Posted by tibear

Exactly what I was thinking....

Another angle.....Why is Cano protected from being tagged out if the Tim believes he is touching third base? It doesn't belong to him, it belongs to Posada. Does third protect both Cano AND Posada??

Basically, there should have been two outs regardless of what he "thought" he saw. Cano for being off the bag and being tagged or Cano out for passing Posada AND Posada out for being tagged off the base.[/QUOTE]

When in the heck did they pass each other.. did you watch the play?

The question was asked as a result of what Tim McCelland had said. McClelland thought Cano was on third base when Posada had overrun the base. Given that scenario, I was wondering if that had technically put Cano "closer" to home plate then Posada and would result in an out as passing a runner.

[3SPORT]

Probably part of the problem of this play is that major league umpires rarely see this type of play and they take a lot of assumptions about the players being smarter than that and being on the bag.

All I can say to Tim McClelland, Welcome to our league!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Today on ESPN's Around the Horn, Kevin Blackistone said, "The best thing to happen to sports is television - unless you're an official."

Marriotti was full of crap saying that the umpires are too timid. Sometimes he's a real jackass.