Rookie League question

[jwwashburn]

The guy named Ump calls me a coach and HE argues for letting a player get away with the worst sort of rodent behavior imaginable. Twilight Zone post there.

You see no issue with the runner?

The issue is that he went out of his way to flatten a guy when there was not even a play.

I do not remember seeing that in pro baseball any time in the last 10-15 years. I have watched a lot of baseball.

It is one thing to allow it when there is a play, it is complete another thing to allow an assault that has nothing to do with a play.

It is complete BS that this is part of the game. There is no rule that the First Baseman cannot flatten the first base coach while coming back from going after a foul ball that went into the stands. I would eject that guy, also.

9.01
(c) Each umpire has authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in these rules.
(d) Each umpire has authority to disqualify any player, coach, manager or substitute for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct or language, and to eject such disqualified person from the playing field. If an umpire disqualifies a player while a play is in progress, the disqualification shall not take effect until no further action is possible in that play.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

The guy named Ump calls me a coach and HE argues for letting a player get away with the worst sort of rodent behavior imaginable. Twilight Zone post here.

Your lack of understanding of what contstitutes "Rodent behavior" betrays you as a coach, as do many of your posts.

9.01
(c) Each umpire has authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in these rules.

And?



New to the game or new to reading?

I'll repeat, it has been a long standing practice in PRO ball to treat contact at home differently than at any other base. This practice and tradition has been accepted by players, managers, umpires, umpire trainers, umpire supervisors and the rules committee. No amount of whining from an amateur coach is going to change that.

Players at the Rookie leagues are learning how to play as pros. They will also learn how to deal with players like this.

Sorry if they don't perform to your version of baseball.

Now then, in T-ball, you'd be correct.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Ump153

Now then, in T-ball, you'd be correct.

It also would be correct in high school, college, Legion, summer wood bat, and adult leagues. Why would you even mention T-ball, as no one here works T-ball?

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Why would you even mention T-ball, as no one here works T-ball?

Are you sure? Have you been reading his posts?

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by Ump153

Your lack of understanding of what contstitutes "Rodent behavior" betrays you as a coach, as do many of your posts.





And?



New to the game or new to reading?

I'll repeat, it has been a long standing practice in PRO ball to treat contact at home differently than at any other base. This practice and tradition has been accepted by players, managers, umpires, umpire trainers, umpire supervisors and the rules committee. No amount of whining from an amateur coach is going to change that.

Players at the Rookie leagues are learning how to play as pros. They will also learn how to deal with players like this.

Sorry if they don't perform to your version of baseball.

Now then, in T-ball, you'd be correct.

You could not be more wrong about me...I think you know that and are just saying crap to see if I will get mad.

In a pro game, when was the last time you saw a catcher flattened by a runner going out of his way when there was no play? This is a very uncommon event. I am trying to recall the last time I saw something like the OP.

The OBR gives an umpire the authority to dump a player that does this. There are plenty of Pro umpires who would not do so. I know this. I say they are wrong.

That runner is not playing baseball, he is assaulting the catcher.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

In a pro game, when was the last time you saw a catcher flattened by a runner going out of his way when there was no play?

This year, last year, probably the year before. It occurs most often when a play could be possible at home, but the fielder decides not to throw. The runner, with hs back to the field chooses to contine as as the play was developing.

Happens a lot in Rookie Leagues and Single A; and more rarely in AAA and the majors.

The OBR gives an umpire the authority to dump a player that does this. There are plenty of Pro umpires who would not do so. I know this. I say they are wrong.

And, by practice, MLB umpires say you are wrong.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

This is a very uncommon event.

No one's disagreeing here (although I do have to wonder how something could be "very uncommon") -- that's why the question was asked.

What we (some of us) are saying is that the way it's handled in the pros is (often) different from how it's handled in the games any of us work.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

No one's disagreeing here (although I do have to wonder how something could be "very uncommon") -- that's why the question was asked.

What we (some of us) are saying is that the way it's handled in the pros is (often) different from how it's handled in the games any of us work.

I tend to think you may be right, Bob. Although, since it is rarely handled, I am not sure a blanket statement should be made as to how it would be handled.

Would Greg Gibson handle this differently than Lance Barksdale? Probably. I do not think I have ever seen it in MLB. The closest thing I can remember is a game within the last couple of years(discussed here?) where a runner slid into a catcher trying to complete a 6-1-3 double play and they called interference...and he touched the plate!

Just because some Rookie league, A or AA umpires might allow this does not mean it should be allowed or even that it always IS allowed.

I know that it shouldn't and I am not so sure that it IS allowed across the board because I do not think there is a rash of guys assaulting catchers not involved in plays.

PS Something can be very uncommon but, it cannot be very unique.

[ozzy6900]

One of the problems with this thread is that some people are trying to look at professional level ball through amateur eyes. In pro ball, there are incidents that happen. Have I seen pro runners go out of their way to take out a pro F2 at the plate? You bet - I've seen it plenty of times. Do the pro players take care of the situation themselves afterwords? Again, you bet! But there are certain rules that must be obeyed and not throwing at a batter's head is one of them. Throw at the batter to send a message if you must but never at the head. Knock him down and send a message, absolutely but stay away from the head. This is where the professional umpire must and will make a decision whether to dump the offending F1.

Now the above is all professional ball - the players are being paid to play. If the players are not being paid to play, it is amateur ball. Yes, even the "want-to-be-but-never-were" men's leagues that want to play MLB rules. If you have to go to a regular job in the morning, you are an amateur and none of the above should be allowed.

This is where we amateur umpires have to stand firm. If the runner goes out of his way to take out F2, dump him. If F1 throws at a batter (in your opinion), dump him! Dump the manager too, if you want. None of this crap belongs in amateur ball under any circumstances.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

One of the problems with this thread is that some people are trying to look at professional level ball through amateur eyes. In pro ball, there are incidents that happen. Have I seen pro runners go out of their way to take out a pro F2 at the plate? You bet - I've seen it plenty of times. Do the pro players take care of the situation themselves afterwords? Again, you bet! But there are certain rules that must be obeyed and not throwing at a batter's head is one of them. Throw at the batter to send a message if you must but never at the head. Knock him down and send a message, absolutely but stay away from the head. This is where the professional umpire must and will make a decision whether to dump the offending F1.

Now the above is all professional ball - the players are being paid to play. If the players are not being paid to play, it is amateur ball. Yes, even the "want-to-be-but-never-were" men's leagues that want to play MLB rules. If you have to go to a regular job in the morning, you are an amateur and none of the above should be allowed.

This is where we amateur umpires have to stand firm. If the runner goes out of his way to take out F2, dump him. If F1 throws at a batter (in your opinion), dump him! Dump the manager too, if you want. None of this crap belongs in amateur ball under any circumstances.

Agreed. In the OP, the pitcher should have been dumped after one throw to the head.

But, the crap that the runner pulled should never be allowed by anybody. It is not baseball, it is pure crap. just because Some(or most or all) Pro umps allow it does mean that they should. Since this thread started, I have communicated with two Pro umps(one former and one current) The former said he would not have dumped the runner, the current said he would dump him in a heartbeat.