Check Swing Appeal

[martynva]

R1 with 3-1 count on the batter. Batter attempts to check swing, PU calls "ball". When BR is half way to first, catcher finally asks PU to appeal to FU, and FU says "Yes, he went". By now R1 is on second. F3 says "hey, he needs to come back to first" and Runner obliges and returns to first. No Problems, but ...

What if Runner stayed at Second? Live ball, why should he return?

What if F-3 called for the ball and tagged the runner as he returned to first? Again, live ball, no requirement to return, shame on him for listening to F3?

[Steven Tyler]

Stupidity by both the offense and the defense.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Stupidity by both the offense and the defense.

And PU for not asking right away.

[Tom H.]

Originally Posted by martynva

R1 with 3-1 count on the batter. Batter attempts to check swing, PU calls "ball". When BR is half way to first, catcher finally asks PU to appeal to FU, and FU says "Yes, he went". By now R1 is on second. F3 says "hey, he needs to come back to first" and Runner obliges and returns to first. No Problems, but ...

What if Runner stayed at Second? Live ball, why should he return?

What if F-3 called for the ball and tagged the runner as he returned to first? Again, live ball, no requirement to return, shame on him for listening to F3?

Am I missing something? Yea, perhaps stupid all around but......
started with a 3-1 count. BU says 'yes he did' so now count is 3 balls and 2 strikes. The award (on ball 4) is negated AND I don't care where he is now he has to come back to the plate and complete his at bat. Go ahead and tag him....he has not become a runner yet!
Unless I am missing something and am sure someone will point it out if I am.
BTW---how the heck did he get all the way to 2B???

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Tom H.

Am I missing something? Yea, perhaps stupid all around but......
started with a 3-1 count. BU says 'yes he did' so now count is 3 balls and 2 strikes. The award (on ball 4) is negated AND I don't care where he is now he has to come back to the plate and complete his at bat. Go ahead and tag him....he has not become a runner yet!
Unless I am missing something and am sure someone will point it out if I am.
BTW---how the heck did he get all the way to 2B???

Tom , you missed the runner, R1, the player on first base, the person that is standing next to the first basemen, the player that moved up to second base.

Sorry to break thenews to ya.

[Tom H.]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Tom , you missed the runner, R1, the player on first base, the person that is standing next to the first basemen, the player that moved up to second base.

Sorry to break thenews to ya.

Don't ever say your sorry -- it is a sign of weakness....

Geeze, you would think that I would read the very first part of the post

[Tom H.]

Originally Posted by martynva

R1 with 3-1 count on the batter. Batter attempts to check swing, PU calls "ball". When BR is half way to first, catcher finally asks PU to appeal to FU, and FU says "Yes, he went". By now R1 is on second. F3 says "hey, he needs to come back to first" and Runner obliges and returns to first. No Problems, but ...

What if Runner stayed at Second? Live ball, why should he return?

What if F-3 called for the ball and tagged the runner as he returned to first? Again, live ball, no requirement to return, shame on him for listening to F3?

ok let me try again....... (boy I am a dumb a**!)

Well, I have made a similar mistake as U3.....If the PU (or catcher/DT) waits that long for an appeal then go with the call at the plate. Otherwise it opens up a sh*t house (personal experence here....story for another time)

If the R1 who is now on 2B made it without being tagged then he 'stole' the base.
No he does not have to return (and if I was there I REALLY would hope not!). If FED Ball one could call OBS (Fed has verbal) and award 2B (once again a sh*t house)
If F3 calls for the ball and tags R1 off the base then we got an out.

Darn, any way you look at it (well, am sure that someone else will look at somethin - else - that I missed) the whole thing turns into crap.

The lesson learned my brothers is not to set yourself up for that house of crap.

[johnnyg08]

There is a responsibility that the players should assume in knowing the situations of the game. When things go wrong...teams always will blame the umpires first.

You ask your partner (probably should ask right away) but it happens.

Call the strike, bring the hitter back, R1 is either safe or out at 2B...play ball.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by martynva

R1 with 3-1 count on the batter. Batter attempts to check swing, PU calls "ball". When BR is half way to first, catcher finally asks PU to appeal to FU, and FU says "Yes, he went". By now R1 is on second. F3 says "hey, he needs to come back to first" and Runner obliges and returns to first. No Problems, but ...

What if Runner stayed at Second? Live ball, why should he return?

What if F-3 called for the ball and tagged the runner as he returned to first? Again, live ball, no requirement to return, shame on him for listening to F3?

R1 can stay at 2nd if he wishes because even though R1 thought he was forced on a walk, he actually "stole" 2nd base! If he returns to 1st, the ball is live and he can be tagged. The offense needs to know what they are doing no matter what F3 says (OBR, NCAA). In a FED game, if the umpire hears F3 tell R1 to return, the umpire would call Verbal Interference and place R1 at 2nd base.

As far as the batter goes, he never became a runner so he returns to the plate even if he is standing on 1st base. The defense has the right to appeal the batter's checked swing until the next play or pitch.

As far as the umpires mechanics, the count was 3-1. the PU has to wait for an appeal from someone to go to the BU. If F2 waits until B1 is down the line or even at 1st base, that's the defense's problem. Now if the count were anything & 2, the PU should be going ASAP to the BU even without an appeal.

The Pro mechanic is if the PU doesn't come to the BU right away (anything & 2), the BU gives the appeal without the ask. This allows both the offense & the defense to know what the game situation and decision is.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Tom H.

Don't ever say your sorry -- it is a sign of weakness....

Only to those that feel uncomortable about being able to express their feelings.

As an official, NEVER doubt my ability to excerise my authority, when necessary. And whoa to those, that assumed I was weak.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

As far as the umpires mechanics, the count was 3-1. the PU has to wait for an appeal from someone to go to the BU. If F2 waits until B1 is down the line or even at 1st base, that's the defense's problem. Now if the count were anything & 2, the PU should be going ASAP to the BU even without an appeal.

PU can appeal without a request, but I agree - there is no reason to do so unless the batter could become a runner on an uncaught pitch (X-2 count, otherwise eligible to run).

[bob jenkins]

AS has been pointed out, in OBR, R1 keeps second. While there's no direct play on this, there is a CMT or play in the rules book where R1 is tagged out in a similar situation.

In FED, the runner would return.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by jicecone

And whoa to those, that assumed I was weak.

A more effective threat might be the more traditional "Woe to those..."