left foot

[asaron]

One3 of my umpire feiends had a game and for some reason this is the position the pitcher took when there was a runner on second base. Right hand pitcher, mounted the rubber with his left foot int the hole in front of the rubber,his right foot about 15 inches towards second and attempted a pick off at second. he called a balk. was he right??

[Ump Rube]

Originally Posted by asaron

One3 of my umpire feiends had a game and for some reason this is the position the pitcher took when there was a runner on second base. Right hand pitcher, mounted the rubber with his left foot int the hole in front of the rubber,his right foot about 15 inches towards second and attempted a pick off at second. he called a balk. was he right??

I am not sure the I am envisioning this correctly, so let me explain what I see (in my mind). On the line down the center of the field I see:

PU
F2
HP
Edge of mound
F1's left foot "in" the rubber (hole in-front of)
Rubber
F1's right foot
2B

(Edit: F1 is still facing 3B as a righty)
If this is right, then I would say on 1st glance, that he is merely straddling the rubber, and is subject to those restrictions, but with the foot in the rubber, I see attempted deception and cause for a balk. I will have to go for further review before giving a complete answer.

[cbfoulds]

Originally Posted by Ump Rube

I am not sure the I am envisioning this correctly, so let me explain what I see (in my mind). On the line down the center of the field I see:

PU
F2
HP
Edge of mound
F1's left foot "in" the rubber (hole in-front of)
Rubber
F1's right foot
2B

(Edit: F1 is still facing 3B as a righty)
If this is right, then I would say on 1st glance, that he is merely straddling the rubber, and is subject to those restrictions, but with the foot in the rubber, I see attempted deception and cause for a balk. I will have to go for further review before giving a complete answer.

"Attempted deception" is NEVER "cause for a balk"!!! LOSE that idea forever.

What you have described [and i THINK what the OP describes] is F1 straddling the rubber [assuming, as you and I do, that he is facing 3d base]. Nothing sinister about that; and yes, he can attempt a pick toward 2d, without any further step or other ado, 'cause he's still an infielder and hasn't assumed a position on the rubber yet. Don't care if his free foot is "in the divot" or 12 inches in front of the rubber - no difference Rules-wise.

About that "deception": it's a balk if it violates a Rule and is deceptive: if it's deceptive and violates none of the pitching Rules, IT"S GOOD PITCHING.

[DG]

RH pitcher facing 3b, left front on the front edge of the rubber, right foot 15 inches behind the rubber. Any runner fooled by that is not paying attention. He can't pitch from that position. Can't see a balk for attempting a putout.

[alex7]

Now that I'm told he's facing third, I'm thinking...

If he's not considered engaged with his left foot on the rubber, then I guess he's just an infielder and can do whatever.

If he is deemed to have engaged the rubber with his left foot...

1.) You give him the FED balk for not engaging the rubber with his throwing side's foot.

Cbfoulds, if his left foot is ON the rubber, I'm not sure that's the same as straddling the rubber. This doesn't seem to be a case of a guy just getting comfortable into his stretch position, where he can do a a little funky footwork. The OP says the guy "mounted" the rubber (insert sex joke here).

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by asaron

One3 of my umpire feiends had a game and for some reason this is the position the pitcher took when there was a runner on second base. Right hand pitcher, mounted the rubber with his left foot int the hole in front of the rubber,his right foot about 15 inches towards second and attempted a pick off at second. he called a balk. was he right??

That is too obvious to be construed as deceiving the runner. If after engaging the rubber and he spins toward 2B on his free foot, I can see a balk called. If his pivot foot was much closer such as 1 or 2 inches, then he spins on his free foot. I can see a balk then.

But, to call one before he even "toes" the rubber and it is obvious to all that he is not on the rubber. I just don't see this as being a balk.

Bad mechanics maybe, but not a balk. If even going by the idea of deception, who is he deceiving? I have no balk and an out if the runner gets caught by such a bad move.

[alex7]

This was discussed in an earlier thread on here.

With the runner at 2B, the right handed pitcher set up as a left-hander, with his left foot on the rubber. In the stretch position, he was facing 1st base, with his left foot on the rubber. No way he could pitch this way.

He then came set and picked to 2nd base.
Balk.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by alex7

This was discussed in an earlier thread on here.

With the runner at 2B, the right handed pitcher set up as a left-hander, with his left foot on the rubber. In the stretch position, he was facing 1st base, with his left foot on the rubber. No way he could pitch this way.

He then came set and picked to 2nd base.
Balk.

Alex, he is describing the pitcher facing third base, with his left foot in the groove in front of the rubber, and his pivot foot 15 inches behind the rubber towards 2nd base. I am envisioning the pitcher just snapping a throw without any step at all, while engaged with the rubber with the wrong foot. I also think it is an illegal attempt to deceive the runner by intentionally contacting the pitcher's plate and simulating a pitching position.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I also think it is an illegal attempt to deceive the runner by intentionally contacting the pitcher's plate and simulating a pitching position.

No rule prohibits simulating a pitching position. 8.05(g) prohibits simulating a pitching motion while off the rubber. ("It is a balk when...The pitcher makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch while he is not touching the pitcher’s plate.")

If F1 has the ball, he may straddle the rubber. No balk. As with any other pitch, he is subject to the time limit between pitches.

[kheisner]

Yes, this is a balk. Pivot foot must be the foot touching the rubber. For a right-handed pitcher the pivot foot is the right foot!!

This is a trick I used to have my pitchers pull when the opposing team had a fast runner with a big lead-off at 2nd base. We picked off a few. Our right-handed pitcher would face 1st base and go to the set-position with his left-foot on the rubber, then he would throw straight back to second base. Umpires or the opposing team never noticed the deception. I'd call the play from the dugout, code word was "Convertible". It worked great and I never had a balk called. I had opposing pitchers after the game ask for me to teach them that great move. (I never did) One umpire at a tourney who umped 3 of our games finally noticed the deception, but he didn't know if it was a balk or not.

Just recently when taking my state high school umpire's test did I learn it was a balk!!

[cbfoulds]

Originally Posted by kheisner

Yes, this is a balk. Pivot foot must be the foot touching the rubber. For a right-handed pitcher the pivot foot is the right foot!!

This is a trick I used to have my pitchers pull when the opposing team had a fast runner with a big lead-off at 2nd base. We picked off a few. Our right-handed pitcher would face 1st base and go to the set-position with his left-foot on the rubber, then he would throw straight back to second base. Umpires or the opposing team never noticed the deception. I'd call the play from the dugout, code word was "Convertible". It worked great and I never had a balk called. I had opposing pitchers after the game ask for me to teach them that great move. (I never did) One umpire at a tourney who umped 3 of our games finally noticed the deception, but he didn't know if it was a balk or not.

Just recently when taking my state high school umpire's test did I learn it was a balk!!

1st: You are an idiot. I hope you will not umpire with the same attitude and ignorance you coached.
2d: Your umpires were clueless: congratulations.
3d: The reason what your pitcher did was a balk had nothing to do with this thread. He simulated a pitching motion [coming "set"] while not legally in contact with the rubber. Where his non-pivot foot was, or which foot was in [incidental] contact with the rubber really does not matter very much.
4th: the act described in the OP [RHP, straddling the rubber, facing (roughly) 3d base, "free" foot in the crater infront of the rubber (and incidentally touching the front edge), hands at his side] IS NOT a balk because it violates none of the pitching regs which define what a balk is.