Ball out of play

[mbyron]

This happened on a windy day in the second game of a double header. We used a split crew that day, and I was not on this game. The umpire who made the ruling consulted a rule book on the field, and still managed to screw it up (or so I think).

R1, R2, outs don't matter. Batter hits a sinking liner to F9, and it handcuffs him. At the last second, he dives forward. The ball skips into his glove, which the fielder "flicks" up. The ball comes out of his glove and flies over the fence.

Place the runners. Now explain it to the coaches so that nobody gets ejected.

[Bishopcolle]

BR at 2nd....R1 at 3rd....R2 scores....same as if he threw it out of bounds....also depends on where the runners were at the time of the "throw."

[SanDiegoSteve]

I will play...

R2 scores
R1 to 3rd
BR to 2nd

Ground Rule Double

F9 never had control of the ball, so it is not a thrown ball, but still a batted ball.

Now don't argue coach. I don't want to eject you.

[Bishopcolle]

results the same, but definitely had control if he flipped it....that is the definition of control....so semantics really....results are the same

[JR12]

Did he intentionally and voluntarily "flick" the ball from his glove? If yes I would say it's thrown out of play. If no then I agree with Steve.
What did the Umpire rule?

[Rich Ives]

Don't you have to decide if it was deflected or thrown first? If deflected it could be a HR or 2B depending on where it was deflected or where went over the fence. If thrown it's 2 bases.


6.09(h) Any fair fly ball is deflected by the fielder into the stands, or over the fence into foul territory, in which case the batter shall be entitled to advance to second base; but if deflected into the stands or over the fence in fair territory, the batter shall be entitled to a home run. However, should such a fair fly be deflected at a point less than 250 feet from home plate, the batter shall be entitled to two bases only.

If it's a deflection at a point more than 250 feet from the plate it's a HR is it not? Think Canseco.

7.05 (h) Two bases, if a fair ball bounces or is deflected into the stands outside the first or third base foul lines; or if it goes through or under a field fence, or through or under a scoreboard, or through or under shrubbery or vines on the fence; or if it sticks in such fence, scoreboard, shrubbery or vines;

7.05(g) Two bases when, with no spectators on the playing field, a thrown ball goes into the stands, . . .

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Don't you have to decide if it was deflected or thrown first? If deflected it could be a HR or 2B depending on where it was deflected or where went over the fence. If thrown it's 2 bases.[/I]

As I read the OP, "the ball skipped into his glove." So this ball is no longer "in flight" and therefore cannot be a home run. I'm with 2 bases from TOP on this play. This seems pretty simple to explain to the managers, but they still may want to argue...

[Dave Reed]

MLBUM 5.8 has a pretty extensive listing of circumstance involving balls deflected out of play.

My summary: TOT if a player intentionally deflects a batted or thrown ball out of play; or has complete control before the ball is dropped, deflected, or kicked OOP.

Otherwise, it is TOP.

Of course, the award is 2 bases.

[briancurtin]

I think I agree with SDS, but...

...how does this even happen? He'd have to flick the ball over 100 feet if he was playing at a regular depth and dove forward.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by briancurtin

...how does this even happen? He'd have to flick the ball over 100 feet if he was playing at a regular depth and dove forward.

I didn't see it. However, I had the first game on the same field in the same wind. We had a pop up over the mound that F4 caught in short right field.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

MLBUM 5.8 has a pretty extensive listing of circumstance involving balls deflected out of play.

My summary: TOT if a player intentionally deflects a batted or thrown ball out of play; or has complete control before the ball is dropped, deflected, or kicked OOP.

Otherwise, it is TOP.

Of course, the award is 2 bases.

Right. Unfortunately, that's not what happened on the field. He decided that since the fielder touched the ball, it should be TOT.

I asked him whether he had judged that the fielder had intentionally flipped the ball up or whether he had control, and he said no. So I told him that it should have been TOP ("ground rule double").

He told me to look it up, 'cuz they had used the book on the field.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I asked him whether he had judged that the fielder had intentionally flipped the ball up or whether he had control, and he said no. So I told him that it should have been TOP ("ground rule double").

So, what do I win?

[umpjim]

I'm having a hard time with whether TOP or TOT would have mattered in this case since it was a liner. Where were the runners awarded?

[Fan10]

Originally Posted by JR12

Did he intentionally and voluntarily "flick" the ball from his glove?

Full disclosure: I'm just a fan. But, rarely does a day go by that I don't read this board to try to learn more about the game I love to watch.

The words voluntary and intentional imply a catch. Could the batter not be out here on a fly ball?

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by Fan10

Full disclosure: I'm just a fan. But, rarely does a day go by that I don't read this board to try to learn more about the game I love to watch.

The words voluntary and intentional imply a catch. Could the batter not be out here on a fly ball?

No, the original play says the ball "skipped into the glove", so no catch.