Base Hit or Not?

[zm1283]

You're telling me that if a player hits a clean single to right center and the dumba** on first ends up getting forced out at second, you're not going to give him a hit?

The OP said nothing about the outfielder dropping a fly ball. It just said it wasn't caught. That could mean anything.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by zm1283

You're telling me that if a player hits a clean single to right center and the dumba** on first ends up getting forced out at second, you're not going to give him a hit?

What if the batter hits a sinking liner to right center and the fielder charges it and at the last minute backs off (as he knows he won't catch it). Runner checks up, not knowing if it will be caught. Right fielder plays it on a hop and tosses to second for the easy out. You gonna give the batter a hit? FC.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Of course it's a Fielder's Choice. What else could it be, by rule?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Well, seeing that he didn't reach base, I don't know how that would be a base hit.

My logic was that there is no "choice" in the outfielder's decision. If it's a clean single, there is no play at first on the hitter, so he only has a play at second. Usually a FC requires some sort of choice made by the defense, but in this situation the fielder has no choice on which player to try to get out.

Why do you seem so angry about little stuff like this? Deep breath.....

You don't need logic, you need the scoring rules.

10.05
(b) The official scorer shall not credit a base hit when a:
(1) runner is forced out by a batted ball, or would have been forced out except for a fielding error;
(2) batter apparently hits safely and a runner who is forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner fails to touch the first base to which such runner is advancing and is called out on appeal. The official scorer shall charge the batter with a time at bat but no hit;

People get upset when a poster continues to argue against a black-and-white-by-the-rules ruling.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

You don't need logic, you need the scoring rules.

10.05
(b) The official scorer shall not credit a base hit when a:
(1) runner is forced out by a batted ball, or would have been forced out except for a fielding error;
(2) batter apparently hits safely and a runner who is forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner fails to touch the first base to which such runner is advancing and is called out on appeal. The official scorer shall charge the batter with a time at bat but no hit;

People get upset when a poster continues to argue against a black-and-white-by-the-rules ruling.

That's fine. I admitted long ago in this thread that I was wrong. I'm not continuing to argue against anythinng. I'm not sure why Kevin feels the need to keep proving he was right, all because I told him I did additional research on why this is a FC and not a hit.

Kevin, did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed? Bad game last night?

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

You don't need logic, you need the scoring rules.

10.05
(b) The official scorer shall not credit a base hit when a:
(1) runner is forced out by a batted ball, or would have been forced out except for a fielding error;
(2) batter apparently hits safely and a runner who is forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner fails to touch the first base to which such runner is advancing and is called out on appeal. The official scorer shall charge the batter with a time at bat but no hit;

People get upset when a poster continues to argue against a black-and-white-by-the-rules ruling.

Upset is one. Incredulous is another. Amused, astounded and dumbfounded are others.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Again, what else could it have been? A fielder's choice! You keep telling us not to argue on things. We're not arguing, we're just expressing our opinions. Quit taking it so personally. Admit (and not grudgingly) that we were right and you were wrong. I have to do that constantly around here when I FUBAR something.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I've never taken scorekeeping "knowledge" from a woman.

I looked around some more online, and I guess it's a FC. I don't agree with it, but you guys are right. The hitter is getting screwed though either way.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Again, what else could it have been? A fielder's choice! You keep telling us not to argue on things. We're not arguing, we're just expressing our opinions. Quit taking it so personally. Admit (and not grudgingly) that we were right and you were wrong. I have to do that constantly around here when I FUBAR something.

Gee, that looks like I admitted that I was wrong in that post. Did you not read the thread from the start, or did you choose to ignore it so you could pile on?

It's times like this that make you believe umpires have bigger egos than coaches, and I didn't think that was possible.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

..., but seriously wondering how anyone could come up with anything but Fielder's Choice as the answer to the question.

It's Dad's wishful thinking. Is it any wonder how some LL kids bat .800 when Dad has the book?

As for scorekeeping, I learned the craft from a woman in Candlestick Park, many years ago. She was quite good, and often disagreed with the official at the park, with good reason. I've never seen so many folks with scorebooks than in Candlestick. It's quite an art, and everyone had their own style. I got a good education, and appreciation for the game in that old meat locker of a park. I won't miss the location, but I do miss the fans, as they were very baseball savvy. Unlike Petco, that has to have the dumbest fans, on average, in MLB.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by kylejt

It's Dad's wishful thinking. Is it any wonder how some LL kids bat .800 when Dad has the book?

As for scorekeeping, I learned the craft from a woman in Candlestick Park, many years ago. She was quite good, and often disagreed with the official at the park, with good reason. I've never seen so many folks with scorebooks than in Candlestick. It's quite an art, and everyone had their own style. I got a good education, and appreciation for the game in that old meat locker of a park. I won't miss the location, but I do miss the fans, as they were very baseball savvy. Unlike Petco, that has to have the dumbest fans, on average, in MLB.

Agreed about Petco. I learned scorekeeping for both bowling and baseball as a young lad. Bowling from my nightly duties as scorekeeper for leagues (in the era before automatic scoring machines), picking up a little extra pocket money, and baseball from my dad and other fans at Westgate Park (where the Padres, of course played their PCL home games). It is indeed a lost art. Back then, it seemed as though everyone kept book. Some had real scorebooks, and most used the one that was inside the program. Ah, the good old days!

[DonInKansas]

Holy crap; a thread about rule 10 got to a second page! Insanity!

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by DonInKansas

Holy crap; a thread about rule 10 got to a second page! Insanity!

Things are a little slow - HS and college are over and LL and its bretheren orgs are transitioning between regular season and their tournaments. Summer ball is kicking off. It's raining. Need to do something to kill the boredom.