A.D. problems

[GA Umpire]

What I find odd is those who say "All of this over a Feshman game?" Why send a reply than if you are not concerned with a Freshman game?

Is every game important? Yes it is to my wallet.

Would I argue with the AD? If I think there is a good chance to increase my wallet for the 2nd game, although it sounded like there wasn't a good chance so I would have gone home early.

Does the AD have any say so? No unless local rules or committees say so. Once game commences, the umpire has jurisdiction to prevent any unfair termination of the game such as HT takes lead in bottom of 5th inning. Then, they want to call it in the top of the 6th with a light sprinkle. That is why umpires get full jurisdiction when game starts and not the HT(AD). But, if the league associations agree to this, then AD has say so. But, that is based upon a local agreement and not all associations.

In this case, it sounds like I would have gone home with no problems. But, I would let the AD know I am calling the game and not him. So, he learns that he has no control over the next umpire who comes out and he thinks he can try it again b/c I didn't make that point clear enough.

[johnnyg08]

If a school official comes to me and wants to stop a game because of weather or whatever, I'm done. I'll let the schools handle it with the state association and I'm getting paid. They can figure it out...much like the "innings pitched" rule...as far as I'm concerned, this pitcher can pitch as long as the coach keeps him in...they can handle it. Yes, by rule, the umpires have jurisdiction...sometimes I've had games where we try to be diplomatic with the AD's (both teams) and neither wants to make a decision so they leave it up to the umpires (since that's the rule) that's what I've experienced...I've never had a school official try to stop play sooner than what we or I've judged...though it certainly could happend. Sometimes we play at neutral sites and if the site manager says that the field is no longer playable or would be too expensive to get ready, etc...then we're done. Pretty simple, regardless of the level.

In our state tournament last week...the UIC and state association made all weather-related decisions...they told us that in our umpire pregame meeting.

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

In this case, it sounds like I would have gone home with no problems. But, I would let the AD know I am calling the game and not him. So, he learns that he has no control over the next umpire who comes out and he thinks he can try it again b/c I didn't make that point clear enough.

If you say "OK AD, seeya!" you are screwing the next umpire who has to come in there and make a call on a game that is not as clear cut.

"Ok Mr. AD, it's my call once the game starts. You're probably right, but lets just wait 5/10 minutes until we really lose the field."

If we were in conversation alone, maybe even note to him that he will look good to parents for trying to get the game in!

Then 5 minutes later, count the cash and throw it in the trunk

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

If you say "OK AD, seeya!" you are screwing the next umpire who has to come in there and make a call on a game that is not as clear cut.

"Ok Mr. AD, it's my call once the game starts. You're probably right, but lets just wait 5/10 minutes until we really lose the field."

If we were in conversation alone, maybe even note to him that he will look good to parents for trying to get the game in!

Then 5 minutes later, count the cash and throw it in the trunk

Exactly.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

If you say "OK AD, seeya!" you are screwing the next umpire who has to come in there and make a call on a game that is not as clear cut.

"Ok Mr. AD, it's my call once the game starts. You're probably right, but lets just wait 5/10 minutes until we really lose the field."

If we were in conversation alone, maybe even note to him that he will look good to parents for trying to get the game in!

Then 5 minutes later, count the cash and throw it in the trunk

What is wrong with some of you people. How many times have there been threads the game officials have erred on the side of safety and have been crucified by the coaches and game administration for being more concerned about being sued than letting the game continue. In the OP we have an AD who is doing the correct thing: erring on the side of safety and some of you guys are getting bent out of shape because this AD is stepping up to the plate and taking the position that the safety of the players come first and not trying to get a game played. GET WITH THE PROGRAM GUYS!!

MTD, Sr.

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

What is wrong with some of you people. How many times have there been threads the game officials have erred on the side of safety and have been crucified by the coaches and game administration for being more concerned about being sued than letting the game continue. In the OP we have an AD who is doing the correct thing: erring on the side of safety and some of you guys are getting bent out of shape because this AD is stepping up to the plate and taking the position that the safety of the players come first and not trying to get a game played. GET WITH THE PROGRAM GUYS!!

MTD, Sr.

1) Because it is not within the rules of the game.

2) Who said the umpire was trying to get the game played in unsafe conditions? Nobody here is arguing to play the game, we are arguing how to deal with an AD who wants to call it, which, by rule, he can't.

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[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

What is wrong with some of you people. How many times have there been threads the game officials have erred on the side of safety and have been crucified by the coaches and game administration for being more concerned about being sued than letting the game continue. In the OP we have an AD who is doing the correct thing: erring on the side of safety and some of you guys are getting bent out of shape because this AD is stepping up to the plate and taking the position that the safety of the players come first and not trying to get a game played. GET WITH THE PROGRAM GUYS!!

MTD, Sr.

The only one in a pi$$ing match now is you. The point is to not let the AD think he can do things as he wants at anytime. This is especially important for the next crew that comes in. And, an example would be as Dash said to prevent. The game was still called but not by the AD so he knows he can't do that anytime he wants for those who do NOT treat the AD with equal jurisdiction as the umpire for field conditions. If they do, then just make sure it is known as to who is calling the game.

That is the only point. To make sure he doesn't try to overstep his bounds in a situation where he needs to stay out of it. That is all at this point. Just walking off at the drop of a hat in a situation where the AD doesn't have business doing so is a bad idea. And, if you just walk off in something like that, make sure someone knows the AD just called the game and not the umpire. To make sure he is being held accountable for it and not the umpire.

And, this was a DH. If at all possible, I am for getting the second game in. You don't get paid if you don't do the game. First one is paid for. What about the 2nd one? I would be thinking about the 2nd one myself. I don't care what the AD's motives are. I know what mine are. And, I won't sacrifice safety for money by no means. B/c I will also be thinking about my own.

[umpjong]

So if a school administrator tells you, the umpire in chief, that the grounds are unplayable and unsafe for the student athletes, you will allow them to continue just because you have the "sole" authority to "call" the game?

Better get your bank book,house title, and car title out, because my kid, the next batter, is going to sprain his ankle while trying to run out a grounder..........

(school has no liability as its all yours now)

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by umpjong

So if a school administrator tells you, the umpire in chief, that the grounds are unplayable and unsafe for the student athletes, you will allow them to continue just because you have the "sole" authority to "call" the game?

Better get your bank book,house title, and car title out, because my kid, the next batter, is going to sprain his ankle while trying to run out a grounder..........

(school has no liability as its all yours now)

Amen Brother.

A personal story along the lines of the OP: A number of years ago, when I still officiating H.S. (NFHS Rules) soccer, I was the AR1 (meaning I was the linesman on the Scorer/Timer/Team Benches side of the field) in a boys' H.S. varsity soccer game. The Home team was Grosse Ile (Mich.) H.S. which is a very very wealthy community south of Detroit. I did not know it at the time, but GIHS had and still does one of those super expensive lightning detection systems (the type you find at the U.S.G.A. Men's Open Championship and Highland Meadows G.C., home of the Jamie Farr-Owens Corning LPGA Championship). The GIHS AD approached me with about ten (10) minutes left in the first half and requested that I notify the R to come to the touchline at the first stoppage of play, which happened less that twenty (20) seconds later. The AD told us, that despite the sky looking absolutly beautiful, the lightning detection system had detected a thunderstorm in the area and he was suspending the game for the safety of the participants. We did not have to be told twice to get the teams off of the playing field and into the H.S. Fifteen (15) minutes later the thunderstorm hit the area.

MTD, Sr.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by umpjong

So if a school administrator tells you, the umpire in chief, that the grounds are unplayable and unsafe for the student athletes, you will allow them to continue just because you have the "sole" authority to "call" the game?

Better get your bank book,house title, and car title out, because my kid, the next batter, is going to sprain his ankle while trying to run out a grounder..........

(school has no liability as its all yours now)

Okay, now we are getting way off course here. This was not the case in the OP, which is what we are discussing, not some hypothetical regarding the field being unplayable and dangerous. Here is exactly what the OP said:

I had a freshman doubleheader today. Rain came in the 2nd inning and I suspended play in the bottom of the third because it was getting too wet and the pitcher was starting to have footing issues. Anyway, the field was still salvageable if the rain stopped soon, so of course I decided to wait for awhile to see what happened. The Athletic Director for the home school was there (which almost never happens), and he came up to me as the players were coming off the field and told me that he was calling the game

Notice that he said that the field was not unsalvageable. A little DiamondDry or other dry dirt substance around the plate, mound and bases, and we're good to go if it stops raining soon. That's how I see it. Then, a heavy-handed AD comes harumphing in and steps on the umpire's balls.

The rules state two things:

You wait a minimum of 30 minutes before making a rainout decision, in case the weather clears up.

As soon as the home team’s batting order is handed to the umpire-in-chief, the umpires are in charge of the playing field and from that moment they shall have sole authority to determine when a game shall be called, suspended or resumed on account of weather or the condition of the playing field.

In the case of the OP, the field could still have been played on if the rain stopped, so I would want to try my best to get both game fees. I hate raining out games, then going a mile to my house and watch the sun come out for the rest of the day. It's happened.

[IowaMike]

Originally Posted by umpjong

So if a school administrator tells you, the umpire in chief, that the grounds are unplayable and unsafe for the student athletes, you will allow them to continue just because you have the "sole" authority to "call" the game?

Better get your bank book,house title, and car title out, because my kid, the next batter, is going to sprain his ankle while trying to run out a grounder..........

(school has no liability as its all yours now)

The field wasn't unplayable at that point and in fact he didn't say it was unplayable. What he said was this: "the rain probably isn't going to stop so I'm calling the game." I wouldn't put kids in a position to get hurt, so give me a little credit here. I didn't see the big deal in waiting for a few minutes to see if it let up. Most posters here seem to think I should have just let him have his way and called it and if it happens again that is probably what I will do.

By the way, this AD has already resigned his position, which will be effective at the end of the month. He's going back to teaching because being an AD is too demanding of his time (that is the reason he gave to the local paper). He wanted to get out of there; safety wasn't his concern in my opinion.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by umpjong

So if a school administrator tells you, the umpire in chief, that the grounds are unplayable and unsafe for the student athletes, you will allow them to continue just because you have the "sole" authority to "call" the game?

The only problem I see with that logic is the Coach is also a School administrator. So let's say the HC is leading in the bottom of 6 by one run. VT comes up in top of 7 and scores 5 runs.

Now the HC comes to you and says "Blue this field is unplayable you should call it". In your opinion the field is still playable. F1's are throwing strikes etc.

Now what!

Using your logic if you do not call the game and someone gets hurt - Sue time.

Bottom line People will sue anyway.

if the AD is going to ask you to call the game then MAKE CERTAIN that each team KNOWS this so that you as the umpiring crew do not take the heat.

In the example given since there were 2 games scheduled I would ask the AD - Are you going to cancel both games? RE: get the 2 game FEES Also, suppose the VT traveld some distance. They might get upset about coming all this way and then having the game Kicked without even waiting 15 - 20 minutes to see if it clears or not.

In Summary: I have no problem if the AD wants to "kick the game" BUT I would make it "Crystal Clear" to both coaches that the AD is cancelling the game etc. Therefore, if there are any reprocussions the AD takes the heat not the umpires.

Pete Booth

[johnnyg08]

If AD wants to cheat, that's going to be between him and the state governing board...if player safety comes up from a school administrator...I'm done...they can figure it out between them...ultimately they're the ones to have to work together many more times than I'll be seeing them. Yep, I agree w/ your points Pete.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

What is wrong with some of you people. How many times have there been threads the game officials have erred on the side of safety and have been crucified by the coaches and game administration for being more concerned about being sued than letting the game continue. In the OP we have an AD who is doing the correct thing: erring on the side of safety and some of you guys are getting bent out of shape because this AD is stepping up to the plate and taking the position that the safety of the players come first and not trying to get a game played. GET WITH THE PROGRAM GUYS!!

MTD, Sr.

I do not know the motivation of this AD, but I'm willing to bet that the best interest of the athletes' safety was not it.

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

1) Because it is not within the rules of the game.

2) Who said the umpire was trying to get the game played in unsafe conditions? Nobody here is arguing to play the game, we are arguing how to deal with an AD who wants to call it, which, by rule, he can't.

------------------

Thank you! The voice of reason has spoken (oh, that's what we've all been saying...never mind).

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

The only one in a pi$$ing match now is you. The point is to not let the AD think he can do things as he wants at anytime. This is especially important for the next crew that comes in. And, an example would be as Dash said to prevent. The game was still called but not by the AD so he knows he can't do that anytime he wants for those who do NOT treat the AD with equal jurisdiction as the umpire for field conditions. If they do, then just make sure it is known as to who is calling the game.

That is the only point. To make sure he doesn't try to overstep his bounds in a situation where he needs to stay out of it. That is all at this point. Just walking off at the drop of a hat in a situation where the AD doesn't have business doing so is a bad idea. And, if you just walk off in something like that, make sure someone knows the AD just called the game and not the umpire. To make sure he is being held accountable for it and not the umpire.

And, this was a DH. If at all possible, I am for getting the second game in. You don't get paid if you don't do the game. First one is paid for. What about the 2nd one? I would be thinking about the 2nd one myself. I don't care what the AD's motives are. I know what mine are. And, I won't sacrifice safety for money by no means. B/c I will also be thinking about my own.

I agree. Imagine that, agreeing with GA Umpire...who'da thunk it!

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I agree. Imagine that, agreeing with GA Umpire...who'da thunk it!

That's 2. What is the world coming to?