Why not another? 9U play

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

This happened Sunday.

We had a runner on 1st, 0 out

Grounder to 1B, tags first and throws to second and nails our runner in the back. He whimpers. I am coaching first and yell for him to get to the base...2B tags him 5 feet from the base and BU calls him safe and calls time.

I jog out to check on the kid and the BU is hearing all sorts of exasperated hollering from the Defensive team's dugout. After about 90 seconds, I convince the kid that he is ok and when I turn around, BU says I think he should be out. I said, "Nope, too late. You called him safe." I turned around and jogged away and heard him say but, but....I never looked back.

The PU told me a couple of innings later that the BU had thought that the runner was awarded the base because he was hit.

Joe in Missuri

Joe,

So, if I'm reading you right, you just wanted to let everyone know that you choose to behave as a rat when you are coaching freaking 9U games, where you very likely have poorly-trained, inexperienced youth umpires. And that you find some sort of humor in the situation.

Interesting.

JM

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Joe,

So, if I'm reading you right, you just wanted to let everyone know that you choose to behave as a rat when you are coaching freaking 9U games, where you very likely have poorly-trained, inexperienced youth umpires. And that you find some sort of humor in the situation.

Interesting.

JM

He deserved what he got from the Defensive team. He was at least 18 years old-an adult. If this moron does not the rules or the first thing about umpiring, then do not come out on the field. If he got OBS and INT confused, that would be one thing but, this was ridiculous-he just made up a rule.

If he had CALLED him out that would have been one thing...he just told me what he thought...so I politely told him what I thought and jogged away. I did not argue. I did not yell. I smiled.

Joe in Missouri

[Forest Ump]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

He deserved what he got from the Defensive team. He was at least 18 years old-an adult. If this moron does not the rules or the first thing about umpiring, then do not come out on the field. If he got OBS and INT confused, that would be one thing but, this was ridiculous-he just made up a rule.

If he had CALLED him out that would have been one thing...he just told me what he thought...so I politely told him what I thought and jogged away. I did not argue. I did not yell. I smiled.

Joe in Missouri

If you are an experienced umpire, you should have performed an honorable service to this young umpire as a mentor. You could have taken the high road; instead you crawled into a rat hole.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

He deserved what he got from the Defensive team. He was at least 18 years old-an adult. If this moron does not the rules or the first thing about umpiring, then do not come out on the field. If he got OBS and INT confused, that would be one thing but, this was ridiculous-he just made up a rule.

If he had CALLED him out that would have been one thing...he just told me what he thought...so I politely told him what I thought and jogged away. I did not argue. I did not yell. I smiled.

Joe in Missouri

Well, okay! You (who are an umpire and know the rules) did a great job of mentoring the "18 year old moron". You also did a great job of showing why I have said for years that umpire/coaches are just rats dressed up.

What comes around - goes around, chief! You'll get payback when you are in uniform!

[chicago11]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Joe,

So, if I'm reading you right, you just wanted to let everyone know that you choose to behave as a rat when you are coaching freaking 9U games, where you very likely have poorly-trained, inexperienced youth umpires. And that you find some sort of humor in the situation.

Interesting.

JM

I am not sure why you go right into the name calling. He went out there and told the ump he thought his own runner should be out. Now everyone accuses him of cheating?

If a coach would have come out to an umpire complaining that his runner should be awarded a base because he was hit with a ball while trying to advance, many people on this forum would be making fun of that coach left and right. But because the umpire made a bad call, now its the coach's fault for not mentoring him? I mean how many coach's come out in the first place and tell an umpire that he thinks his runner should be out? It has never happened to me.

[archangel]

Originally Posted by chicago11

I am not sure why you go right into the name calling. He went out there and told the ump he thought his own runner should be out. Now everyone accuses him of cheating?

....... I mean how many coach's come out in the first place and tell an umpire that he thinks his runner should be out? It has never happened to me.

Read the OP again! The coach didnt say his runner was out, but that he was safe!

[UmpJM]

chicago11,

I'm not sure what thread you're reading...

Joe, by his own account, did NOT tell the ump his runner was out. Rather, when the ump realized he probably blew the call (thanks to the helpful input of the team disadvantaged) Joe told him he couldn't change it. Which is, of course, wrong.

So, he's teaching 9 year old kids that it's OK to cheat as long as you gain some personal advantage and that pre-emptive intimidation is the preferred tactic when you are in a position to use it.

What thread are you reading?

JM

[MrUmpire]

A rat in denial. Classic.

[jicecone]

Is it me, or since I moved from the north country has the cold weather really affected you guys that much?

Joe has now complained twice about umpires for 9U games. Well "No Freaking Kidding" , they suck. If Joe was only a coach, we could accept this ignorance but, he says he is also an umpire. Does he also complain to the parents of his team that their kids don't play like MLB players?

So what part of this don't you understand Chicago?

[SanDiegoSteve]

You cannot expect coaches not to cheat. It's their nature.

You cannot expect an umpire to be anything but impartial. It's their nature.

When you are both a coach and an umpire, you wear two different hats, and have two distinct personalities, which you must separate for each job.

No coach is going to go out and bail out the umpire for blowing a call in their favor. You people really expect a coach, even one who umpires, to ask an umpire to overrule themselves against their own team? Cha, right.

[umpjong]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

No coach is going to go out and bail out the umpire for blowing a call in their favor. You people really expect a coach, even one who umpires, to ask an umpire to overrule themselves against their own team? Cha, right.

Horn blowing time. First of all shame on you Mr Washburn.

During the summer I coach an American Legion team (18-19 yr olds). Last summer while playing our biggest rival (who usually kicks our arses all over the field) I was coaching 3rd base when our batter sent a line drive over my head and landed 8 feet foul down the left field line. As I put up the stop sign for the runner at first I noticed that the PU was signaling the ball fair. When he saw me stopping my runner you could see him gulp. He came into the infield and verbally asked the BU if he saw the ball. Before the Bu could respond I quietly said, "its foul Steve". He then threw up his hands and changed his call.

After the inning the General manager met me in the dug out and asked me, just what in the h@!! are you doing. (he was half kidding) I told him you know what you got when you hired me. He asked me if I would have done the same thing in the tournament and I told him, "lets cross that bridge then". I think he knew then what his answer was.

Integrity, and the teaching of it is a big part of Baseball to me and alot of you (came to that conclusion by reading your posts). Especially at the lower levels coaches and umpires and parents should teach their players this aspect.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by umpjong

Horn blowing time. First of all shame on you Mr Washburn.

During the summer I coach an American Legion team (18-19 yr olds). Last summer while playing our biggest rival (who usually kicks our arses all over the field) I was coaching 3rd base when our batter sent a line drive over my head and landed 8 feet foul down the left field line. As I put up the stop sign for the runner at first I noticed that the PU was signaling the ball fair. When he saw me stopping my runner you could see him gulp. He came into the infield and verbally asked the BU if he saw the ball. Before the Bu could respond I quietly said, "its foul Steve". He then threw up his hands and changed his call.

After the inning the General manager met me in the dug out and asked me, just what in the h@!! are you doing. (he was half kidding) I told him you know what you got when you hired me. He asked me if I would have done the same thing in the tournament and I told him, "lets cross that bridge then". I think he knew then what his answer was.

Integrity, and the teaching of it is a big part of Baseball to me and alot of you (came to that conclusion by reading your posts). Especially at the lower levels coaches and umpires and parents should teach their players this aspect.

Shame on me? How about shame on the kid who is old enough to vote that took a pretty good paying job and did NOTHING to prepare himself for that job? How about SHAME on him for making up a rule? Shame on me? Nope, not on this one.

For your ridiculous example, pat yourself on the back. It was a terrible coaching decision, though. You cared more about what the umpire was going through than your team. It was completely unfair to your kids. Keep your yap shut in that situation. I am not saying go out and argue that your caught a ball that he didn't. Terrible calls have a way of evening out. There is no way I am going to ask the umpire to rule against my team.

[umpjong]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Shame on me? How about shame on the kid who is old enough to vote that took a pretty good paying job and did NOTHING to prepare himself for that job? How about SHAME on him for making up a rule? Shame on me? Nope, not on this one.

For your ridiculous example, pat yourself on the back. It was a terrible coaching decision, though. You cared more about what the umpire was going through than your team. It was completely unfair to your kids. Keep your yap shut in that situation. I am not saying go out and argue that your caught a ball that he didn't. Terrible calls have a way of evening out. There is no way I am going to ask the umpire to rule against my team.

So integrity means nothing to you?
(oh by the way, yours was a 9 yr old game?)

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Shame on me? How about shame on the kid who is old enough to vote that took a pretty good paying job and did NOTHING to prepare himself for that job? How about SHAME on him for making up a rule? Shame on me? Nope, not on this one.

For your ridiculous example, pat yourself on the back. It was a terrible coaching decision, though. You cared more about what the umpire was going through than your team. It was completely unfair to your kids. Keep your yap shut in that situation. I am not saying go out and argue that your caught a ball that he didn't. Terrible calls have a way of evening out. There is no way I am going to ask the umpire to rule against my team.

I don't get this at all. The kids know it's foul, the parents know it's foul, the GM knows it's foul. The right thing is to be sportsmanlike and do what he did. Furthermore, it's possible he was the one who blocked the umpire from seeing the ball. Personally, I'm good for about one gross miss a season or two. I don't know how that evens out unless I happen to have you again two seasons from now when I screw up again.

I know this is a sweeping generalization, but in general I *hate* working for coaches who also umpire. Many of them do not really have a grasp of the rules, mechanics, etc. but because they umpire a few games makes them more of an expert than me. I don't really mind too much, but I tend to have a much shorter rope with those guys, especially if they announce that they umpire before the game starts (like I care).

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Shame on me? How about shame on the kid who is old enough to vote that took a pretty good paying job and did NOTHING to prepare himself for that job? How about SHAME on him for making up a rule? Shame on me? Nope, not on this one.

If that same kid prepared your Big Mac without special sauce, would you say shame on him ? Or would you instead blame the manager who hired him, and put him on the clock without prior proper training ??? I'm sure when you first started umpiring, you knew all there was to know. Obviously, the kid has some learning to do, but you don't seem interested in helping him learn, just pointing out his short-comings. Did NOTHING to prepare himself for the job ? NOTHING ? I guess you know this kid pretty well to have knowledge of that. There are lots of people who insist that the hands are part of the bat. Are they making up a rule ? No, they are parroting what they've been told numerous times, and have come to believe it. Maybe that's what happened in this case. Maybe someone told the kid that that was the rule, and he's held on to it in his head. I hope for his sake he doesn't have anymore of your games.
He deserves better treatment.