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Old Wed Jun 10, 2009, 09:09am
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Balk

Seems to be a lot of balk questions lately but here is another.

(FED) F1 is straddling the rubber (readying himself for a stretch/set positioning). He engages with his pivot foot and "settles" by bringing his hands together, then apart, and bringing his non-pivot foot forward. {All of this is of course very quickly} He then goes through the motion of receiving his sign...etc...

Is the act of bringing his hands together and then apart while "settling" (no matter how fast and/or non-deceptive) a balk?

Hopefully I've described it well enough for you all to get the idea.

-Josh

Last edited by jdmara; Wed Jun 10, 2009 at 09:15am.
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Old Wed Jun 10, 2009, 09:22am
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From J/R, ch. 18 on balks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J/R
It is a balk if a pitcher...

3. contacts the rubber with his hands apart, joins his hands for a considerable period of time, and then separates his hands without a concurrent motion to pitch, throw, or disengage [8.05] (emphasis added).
You'll have to judge whether your F1 had his hands together for a "considerable period of time."
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Old Wed Jun 10, 2009, 09:23am
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If all of this is done quickly and is obviously a part of his getting "settled", I would have nothing. If, however, he stops while his hand are together, I would more than likely view further movement as a balk, depending on the age and skill level of the participants. At the least, it would be a teachable moment.
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Old Wed Jun 10, 2009, 10:19am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
From J/R, ch. 18 on balks.



You'll have to judge whether your F1 had his hands together for a "considerable period of time."
Yet another reason my J/R is on order...

By no means was the pitchers hands together longer than the ball being transferred from the glove to the pitching hand. My partner called a balk on it and I didn't quite believe it was. He was under the impression that in FED, there is no such term as "settling" like their are in other codes. I guess I haven't investigated the rules for that nuance.

Thanks as always gentleman

-Josh
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Old Wed Jun 10, 2009, 10:35am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmara View Post
Yet another reason my J/R is on order...
Spend a little more and also buy the Jim Evans Balk Video.
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Old Wed Jun 10, 2009, 10:37am
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FED should be ruled the same. We have 6-2-4(e):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule 6-2-4
Balk. If there is a runner or runners, any of the following acts by a
pitcher while he is touching the pitcherís plate is a balk:
e. taking a hand off the ball while in a set position (6-1-3), unless he pitches
to the batter or throws to a base or he steps toward and feints a throw to
second or third base as in (b);
I would also argue that case 6.2.4D gives you an idea of the "considerable period of time" needed to get a balk for separating the hands without pitching.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Case 6.2.4D
6.2.4 SITUATION D: With a runner or runners on base, F1 assumes the set
position. He stretches his arms above his head, brings them down together and
pauses with the ball in both hands in front of the body after which he (a) separates
hands and then steps back off pitcherís plate with pivot foot or (b) steps
back off pitcherís plate with pivot foot and feints throw to unoccupied first.
RULING: In (a), this is a balk. In (b), this is legal.
As I understand it, in your situation F1 did not touch the ball nearly that long, nor did he come set before separating his hands.

FED rules do not include a valuable provision of OBR 8.05, but they should: when in doubt about a balk (and only then), determine whether the pitcher intended to deceive the runner.

I think that in your situation, all of these indicators point the same direction.
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Old Wed Jun 10, 2009, 10:41am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest Ump View Post
Spend a little more and also buy the Jim Evans Balk Video.
I do have Jim Evans video as well. I hadn't watched it for awhile so I popped it back in last night (got through about half...it was a late night getting home...). Unfortunately Jim has trouble covering all rules sets. I think the commonly repeated phrase is "your local association may go by different rules, check with them for their official interpretation". I just go to the web for this type of stuff

-Josh
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Old Wed Jun 10, 2009, 10:55am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmara View Post
By no means was the pitchers hands together longer than the ball being transferred from the glove to the pitching hand. My partner called a balk on it and I didn't quite believe it was. He was under the impression that in FED, there is no such term as "settling" like their are in other codes. I guess I haven't investigated the rules for that nuance.

He was way, way too literal on the FED wording "the pitching restrictions begin once the pitcher intentionally contacts the pitcher's plate with the pivot foot." He's correct that there is no wording like "settling" in FED (nor is there in other codes).

I hope he also balked the pitcher who stood at the side of the rubber, put his pivot foot on (in front of but touching) the rubber, and then moved the non-pivot foot to in front of the rubber. After all -- that was a "step" toward the plate, not followed by a pitch.

And, I hope he balked the pitcher who intentionally kicked the dirt off the rubber (or dug the little hole in front of the rubber) with his pivot foot -- that was an illegal disengagment.

etc.
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Old Wed Jun 10, 2009, 11:18am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
He was way, way too literal on the FED wording "the pitching restrictions begin once the pitcher intentionally contacts the pitcher's plate with the pivot foot." He's correct that there is no wording like "settling" in FED (nor is there in other codes).

I hope he also balked the pitcher who stood at the side of the rubber, put his pivot foot on (in front of but touching) the rubber, and then moved the non-pivot foot to in front of the rubber. After all -- that was a "step" toward the plate, not followed by a pitch.

And, I hope he balked the pitcher who intentionally kicked the dirt off the rubber (or dug the little hole in front of the rubber) with his pivot foot -- that was an illegal disengagment.

etc.
We did have some awkward balk calls because of the early precedent set by this balk. It made for a "fun" evening

-Josh
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