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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 08, 2009, 09:26am
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Batter Returns To Plate After Hitting Fair Ball

OBR based rules with shaving age players (18u).

R3. Two outs. Visitors batting. Left handed batter slices one down the left field line that hits about six inches fair. PU signals fair. A grandpa from the visitor's bleachers yell in glee, "that's a fair ball". R3 is going on contact and scores, but the 1st base coach thinks grandpa's yell is the PU calling the ball foul, and sends the batter back to the plate either before or after he touches 1st.

Results?
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Old Mon Jun 08, 2009, 09:33am
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Blue37,

The batter is out for his coach's stupidity.

Personally, I wouldn't let this happen in a game where I was the PU.

JM
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Old Mon Jun 08, 2009, 10:21am
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JM,

What do you mean? Once I point it fair, I wait for the play to end. If that means banging the batter-runner out when he goes back to home, not scoring the run, and probably running the OC, so be it.
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Old Mon Jun 08, 2009, 10:26am
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Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM) View Post
Blue37,

The batter is out for his coach's stupidity.

Personally, I wouldn't let this happen in a game where I was the PU.

JM
Would you tackle the batter? How would you stop it from happening?
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Old Mon Jun 08, 2009, 10:30am
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UmpTT & jwwashurn,

I will just keep pointing the ball fair until SOMEBODY gets the message. If necessary, I will move up the 1B line and block the batter's return to HP.

Everybody can't be THAT stupid. And this is 18U? Sheesh!

JM
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 08, 2009, 10:33am
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Two outs right?

If the BR touched first it becoames abandonment and a timing play on the run scoring.

If he retreats before touching first and is called out for reaching the plate then no run as the third out was before the BR touched first.
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Old Mon Jun 08, 2009, 10:34am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM) View Post
UmpTT & jwwashurn,

I will just keep pointing the ball fair until SOMEBODY gets the message. If necessary, I will move up the 1B line and block the batter's return to HP.

Everybody can't be THAT stupid. And this is 18U? Sheesh!

JM
I agree, I am pointing FAIR but if the BR listens to his dumb coach and touches or passes the plate, I'm banging him out!

Edited because I failed to proof-read the damn thing
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Last edited by ozzy6900; Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 06:34am.
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Old Mon Jun 08, 2009, 10:47am
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Originally Posted by ozzy6900 View Post
I agree, I am pointing FAIR but if the BR listens to his dumb coach and touches or passes the plate, I'm banging him out!
Fixed it for ya.
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Old Mon Jun 08, 2009, 11:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM) View Post
UmpTT & jwwashurn,

I will just keep pointing the ball fair until SOMEBODY gets the message. If necessary, I will move up the 1B line and block the batter's return to HP.

Everybody can't be THAT stupid. And this is 18U? Sheesh!

JM
I agree with pointing fair but I am not going to hold it up forever. Once he comes about halfway, I am done trying to let them know MY call.

Also, why are you going to stand in his way? Now, that is interfering with the game and going too far IMO. Once he has established he is not going to acknowledge MY call, I am letting him do what he wants and calling him out as soon as he gets to the plate for abandonment(score the run).

But, like Rich pointed out, if he does not touch(pass) 1B and comes all the way back to HP, then I am calling him out and score no run since he was out before touching(passing) 1B.
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Old Mon Jun 08, 2009, 11:13am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM) View Post
UmpTT & jwwashurn,

I will just keep pointing the ball fair until SOMEBODY gets the message. If necessary, I will move up the 1B line and block the batter's return to HP.

Everybody can't be THAT stupid. And this is 18U? Sheesh!

JM
You have got to be kidding! You are going intentionally obstruct a runner?
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 08, 2009, 11:34am
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This is an easy answer... you are not a coach. You are an arbiter. You pointed fair... its fair. You don't think at Fenway people are screaming wrong things? If you point fair... its fair, no matter if the B/R runs or even if he pulls out a tent and makes camp in the batters box.

You will not move up the line to make a call or HELP the B/R. Fair/Foul call are made on the line ONLY...

The only thing you could do to not grab that end of the stick is keep your fair signal out longer. But if this happens the player is out for dumbness, unless he reaches safely, and the coach will argue and be ran for stupidness. And you will have a nice story to tell!
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Old Mon Jun 08, 2009, 11:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GA Umpire View Post
I agree with pointing fair but I am not going to hold it up forever. Once he comes about halfway, I am done trying to let them know MY call.

Also, why are you going to stand in his way? Now, that is interfering with the game and going too far IMO. Once he has established he is not going to acknowledge MY call, I am letting him do what he wants and calling him out as soon as he gets to the plate for abandonment(score the run).

But, like Rich pointed out, if he does not touch(pass) 1B and comes all the way back to HP, then I am calling him out and score no run since he was out before touching(passing) 1B.
Ga, if the BR retreats back toward home after touching the bag, he essentially re-instates the force at 1B, no run would score.
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Old Mon Jun 08, 2009, 11:52am
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What was the defense doing?

Was the defense fooled, too? Just curious...did the defense make a play at first?
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Old Mon Jun 08, 2009, 12:07pm
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Originally Posted by justanotherblue View Post
Ga, if the BR retreats back toward home after touching the bag, he essentially re-instates the force at 1B, no run would score.
I will not re-instate the force unless the runner touches(passes back) over 1B. If he is heading toward 2B or swings around in foul territory and makes no effort to retouch 1B, I am only calling him out for abandonment which is a timing play.

To re-instate the force without the runner actually making some kind of gesture to retouch is going to cause more problems b/c he didn't actually touch(pass over) the base again. Making that call is grabbing the wrong end since the runner did nothing to re-instate the force.

So, if the runner attempts or actually does retouch 1B, then the force is re-instated. If he doesn't, then abandonment will be called once he reaches HP and the run scores.
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Old Mon Jun 08, 2009, 01:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM) View Post
UmpTT & jwwashurn,

I will just keep pointing the ball fair until SOMEBODY gets the message. If necessary, I will move up the 1B line and block the batter's return to HP.

Everybody can't be THAT stupid. And this is 18U? Sheesh!

JM
JM,

I was the PU and had come out pretty hard toward third to rule on the fair/foul. Foul territory slopes down to the corner of the fence, so I had gone even further after the ball hit to watch for problems, so I was right at third when the ball came back in. The defense did not react to grandpa's shout. The batter was already at the plate area when I first noticed it was him rather than the next batter. Time had not been called, so I just assumed my position, then called time when he took his position. I went to my partner to see if he had sent him back, and he said he had not. I asked if he had touched first and he had, so we called him out for abandonment and scored the run.

Had this occurred down the right field line, an additional point or two might have solved the problem, but that was not possible with the ball down the left field line.
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