Game today - Calling Balkologists...

[UmpJM]

Tuss,

First, congratulations on your graduation!

As to your question....

You were there and I wasn't, but this sounds to me like an "awkward but probably legal" feint of a pick-off to 2B.

As long as he gained "distance and direction" towards 2B and never came to a complete stop, he's probably OK. If he starts with his free foot, I don't much care what he does with his pivot foot.

Again, you were there and I wasn't.

How did your "sell" go?

JM

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Tuss,

First, congratulations on your graduation!

As to your question....

You were there and I wasn't, but this sounds to me like an "awkward but probably legal" feint of a pick-off to 2B.

As long as he gained "distance and direction" towards 2B and never came to a complete stop, he's probably OK. If he starts with his free foot, I don't much care what he does with his pivot foot.

Again, you were there and I wasn't.

How did your "sell" go?

JM

The pitcher wasn't too happy, I told him it was a balk because all that pivot foot stuff happened before his step was done. He argued that he had disengaged already... but seemed to know that he lost his balance. We had a short talk, we didn't come to a concensus but I think we understood each others point.

Coach was a daddy who was clueless. Came out in between innings and asked nicely what the deal was. I BS'd a bit, said that his stumble with the right foot wasn't legal, but his step towards 2nd was fine.

It should be noted that if I didn't have a balk, it probably would have been a tougher sell to the other coach, who was much more of a jack***.

[David B]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Tuss,

First, congratulations on your graduation!

As to your question....

You were there and I wasn't, but this sounds to me like an "awkward but probably legal" feint of a pick-off to 2B.

As long as he gained "distance and direction" towards 2B and never came to a complete stop, he's probably OK. If he starts with his free foot, I don't much care what he does with his pivot foot.

Again, you were there and I wasn't.

How did your "sell" go?

JM

Probably you could get away with the balk, but as JM said, probably was legal. I know it's old, but its really really hard to balk to second base.

Just about anything is legal

But, since it was so unusual, it made it easy to make the call.

Thanks
David

[DG]

Originally Posted by David B

I know it's old, but its really really hard to balk to second base.

Just about anything is legal

I called one once.

I was wrong.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by DG

I called one once.

I was wrong.

I thought I was wrong once.

I was mistaken.

[ozzy6900]

Normally, F1 cannot balk to 2nd base. However, in the realm of Youth Baseball, if it really looks ugly, you can get away with calling the balk!

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

As long as he gained "distance and direction" towards 2B and never came to a complete stop, he's probably OK. If he starts with his free foot, I don't much care what he does with his pivot foot.

This is the direction I was going. Once the free foot goes behind the rubber and his shoulders turn, the possibility of deception is gone. Remember that 8.05 includes a provision to the effect that, if in doubt about a balk, assess whether the move is intended to be deceptive. (Notice that this provision is restricted and not a general criterion of balks.)

Here it is, from the very end of 8.05:

Originally Posted by Rule 8.05

Rule 8.05 Comment: Umpires should bear in mind that the purpose of the balk rule is to prevent
the pitcher from deliberately deceiving the base runner. If there is doubt in the umpire’s mind, the
“intent” of the pitcher should govern.

So if you judged that, however ugly, the move was accidental and not intended to be deceptive (the falling, the goofy pivot foot stuff), provided it didn't violate any other condition of 8.05 you could rule that it was not a balk.

All that said, I agree further with JM: you were there and we weren't. I'm not arguing that you blew the call, I'm trying to provide resources for dealing with these "ugly" moves in the future.

And, as for dealing with the jaqass coach who wants a balk called: a simple "he stepped to the base, coach," will suffice. If he comes out to discuss it, I'll agree that it was an ugly step.

[TussAgee11]

Thanks guys... I'll file it away as not a gross miss, but a miss none the less. Try to have that perfect game next time...