FPSR Violation??

[David B]

Originally Posted by jicecone

As we all know, just because this was a championship game, it doesn't necessarily mean that championship officials were on it. It is unfortunate but, happens often.

Exactly, championship officials just make the calls. This is an example of an umpire chocking under the pressure. In basketball they would call that "swallowing the whistle"

Thanks
David

[ozzy6900]

It seems that the picture order has bee reshuffled since the OP was posted.

If this is the picture that we are talking about.......




I have R1 out on FPSR and BR out just to put the icing on the cake!

I like getting 2 for the price of 1! (heh, heh, heh)

[mbyron]

Yep, that's the decisive image. FPSR violation at least 2 ways. Runner out, BR out. Next!

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by jicecone

As we all know, just because this was a championship game, it doesn't necessarily mean that championship officials were on it. It is unfortunate but, happens often.

That's the TRUTH!

[DG]

Originally Posted by MajorDave

A FED safety related rule that exists in some form or fashion in all rule sets played by amateurs.

I say YES! FPSR violation-no doubt whatsoever. But, if the DP was obtained without calling it then by all means wait and call it only when necessary. If you think the contact was malicious then eject.

So you will wait to see, and if they turn the double play with no one out you will allow the runner on 3B to score?

NCAA also has FPSR, and some amateur rules do not.

[MajorDave]

I have never seen or called a FPSR violation from the plate area. I have responsibilities at the plate area and at third. The only time I can see it or call it is with R1 when I am coming out far enough to see it and call it.

I had one this season in a FED game (How do you spell safety? Can you say NFHS? Sure, I knew you could.)where I called it immediately when I saw it. I got to about C position from the plate when the slide occured past the bag dumping the F6. I saw it and did not wait until the DP was over. IF both runners are out I don't have to make a big deal calling the automatic DP like I did. My call resulted in a big S**thouse which resulted in a longer than I liked discussion and explanation to the head coach for the offense then an argument and ultimately a dump of the assistant coach.

If I had waited, the DP happened anyway and I could have just spoken to the offensive head coach on the way back to the dugout and probably avoided dumping his assistant. They were getting killed and looking for a scapegoat. I personally think the ASSistant put on a show to try to get their players fired up but it still detracted from the game and wasted time and got the ignorant inbred fans fired up which resulted in some more warnings and restrictions.

I am not afraid to make a call, especially that call, but I think I learned a little bit about managment of situations in that instance. I should have waited then told the coach of the offending player that I saw it, pointed it and would have called it if I had to. They made a mountain out of a mole hill for a differing purpose and I fell into the trap. It was the first time that team had been run-ruled in about five years (A very good high school program that ultimately went to the regional semi-finals this year).

As to some amateur leagues that do not use FPSR I assume you mean that BS adult baseball crap where full grown men still try to be boys and jeopardize their personal health and family's financial well being trying to continue to live the dream. We don't have that around here and I would not work it under any circumstance. I am not that hard up for games or money. From the stories I hear those games often become a travesty and a testament to bad sportsmanship. If I worked them I would have to dump almost everyone and then I wouldn't get asked back anyway.

Sorry so long but you struck a nerve and I guess you might have meant to. If not I apologize and if so, good job. I'm sure you are proud and smug about it.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by MajorDave

If I had waited, the DP happened anyway and I could have just spoken to the offensive head coach on the way back to the dugout and probably avoided dumping his assistant.

Then you would have to dump an opposing runner the next inning, as he commits malicious contact in revenge, since you apparently didn't think the original play was illegal.

You have to call it when you see it. Without that, it becomes way too much of a free-for-all, and you will have some explaining to do when you call it on the opposing team's identical play.

So you got caught up in a storm of someone else's creation. So what? It happens.

[DG]

Originally Posted by MajorDave

I have never seen or called a FPSR violation from the plate area. I have responsibilities at the plate area and at third. The only time I can see it or call it is with R1 when I am coming out far enough to see it and call it.

I had one this season in a FED game (How do you spell safety? Can you say NFHS? Sure, I knew you could.)where I called it immediately when I saw it. I got to about C position from the plate when the slide occured past the bag dumping the F6. I saw it and did not wait until the DP was over. IF both runners are out I don't have to make a big deal calling the automatic DP like I did. My call resulted in a big S**thouse which resulted in a longer than I liked discussion and explanation to the head coach for the offense then an argument and ultimately a dump of the assistant coach.

If I had waited, the DP happened anyway and I could have just spoken to the offensive head coach on the way back to the dugout and probably avoided dumping his assistant. They were getting killed and looking for a scapegoat. I personally think the ASSistant put on a show to try to get their players fired up but it still detracted from the game and wasted time and got the ignorant inbred fans fired up which resulted in some more warnings and restrictions.

I am not afraid to make a call, especially that call, but I think I learned a little bit about managment of situations in that instance. I should have waited then told the coach of the offending player that I saw it, pointed it and would have called it if I had to. They made a mountain out of a mole hill for a differing purpose and I fell into the trap. It was the first time that team had been run-ruled in about five years (A very good high school program that ultimately went to the regional semi-finals this year).

As to some amateur leagues that do not use FPSR I assume you mean that BS adult baseball crap where full grown men still try to be boys and jeopardize their personal health and family's financial well being trying to continue to live the dream. We don't have that around here and I would not work it under any circumstance. I am not that hard up for games or money. From the stories I hear those games often become a travesty and a testament to bad sportsmanship. If I worked them I would have to dump almost everyone and then I wouldn't get asked back anyway.

Sorry so long but you struck a nerve and I guess you might have meant to. If not I apologize and if so, good job. I'm sure you are proud and smug about it.

I have seen and called FPSR from the plate, but only when there is an R2 or R3. With R1 only it is my responsibility to watch for this and be out from behind the plate to do it.

My point, which you missed, is that you call it when you see it, not wait to see what happens. If you allow a double play to happen a run could score while you wait to see something that is irrelevant.

You seem to prefer waiting to make the legitimate call, which is wrong, and my point, to having coaches come out and argue.

Adult baseball is not youth baseball. There are youth leagues that don't have FPSR.

My intent was not to strike a nerve, but to get you think about the consequences of not calling it when you see it (run scores because you allowed a DP to happen, sh*house happens because you didn't, etc).

Your game management skills are not complete until you call FPSR when you see it, and deal with the sh*thouse that might ensue. If you understand this after this discussion then I am proud, if not I don't really care.

[MajorDave]

Please, enlighten us. Which one(s)? I have never worked any level of baseball that doesn't have some version requiring players to avoid contact when sliding or setting rules for sliding and when contact is allowed.

I don't work any 60' baseball. I tried it and didn't like it. Others may wish to know which of those but I don't.

I bet these are some kind of house/local league. Maybe not but fortunately I don't work them.

FPSR is a legitimate rule and I call it more than most of my high school compadres. But, I have not had the opportunity (yet) to observe it from the plate area. If I see it I will call it and send the runners not involved back. I have no problem with that.

As far as malicious contact I have called it several times as well but usually at the plate and maybe once or twice at second. Never at third or first or between bases.

Thanks for making me think a little bit.

[DG]

Originally Posted by MajorDave

Please, enlighten us. Which one(s)? I have never worked any level of baseball that doesn't have some version requiring players to avoid contact when sliding or setting rules for sliding and when contact is allowed.

FPSR is a legitimate rule and I call it more than most of my high school compadres. But, I have not had the opportunity (yet) to observe it from the plate area. If I see it I will call it and send the runners not involved back. I have no problem with that.

As far as malicious contact I have called it several times as well but usually at the plate and maybe once or twice at second. Never at third or first or between bases.

Thanks for making me think a little bit.

Unless a recent change, Babe Ruth baseball does not have FPSR. Check LL, Dixie, and others, as I am not up on those. FPSR is generally used for leagues that use FED rules.

[JR12]

Originally Posted by MajorDave

Please, enlighten us. Which one(s)? I have never worked any level of baseball that doesn't have some version requiring players to avoid contact when sliding or setting rules for sliding and when contact is allowed.

I don't work any 60' baseball. I tried it and didn't like it. Others may wish to know which of those but I don't.

I bet these are some kind of house/local league. Maybe not but fortunately I don't work them.

FPSR is a legitimate rule and I call it more than most of my high school compadres. But, I have not had the opportunity (yet) to observe it from the plate area. If I see it I will call it and send the runners not involved back. I have no problem with that.

As far as malicious contact I have called it several times as well but usually at the plate and maybe once or twice at second. Never at third or first or between bases.

Thanks for making me think a little bit.

I had it this year at the plate. Bases loaded and a grounder to F3 . Throw to F2 and R3 slides hard into F2 past the plate. F2 (legs taken out) couldn't throw back to F3.
Nothing malicious. Would have been good, hard baseball if playing OBR.

[dash_riprock]

Good in NCAA as well.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by DG

Unless a recent change, Babe Ruth baseball does not have FPSR. Check LL, Dixie, and others, as I am not up on those. FPSR is generally used for leagues that use FED rules.

While these leagues don't use FPSR, they do feature sliding rules, which prohibit malicious contact in some way. They usually phrase it "slide or avoid collision." In the last 20 years or so, I haven't run into a youth league (under 18) that just lets the runner crash the fielder with immunity.

[johnnyg08]

In FED they can only slide to the back of home plate...not through home plate either.

[DG]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

While these leagues don't use FPSR, they do feature sliding rules, which prohibit malicious contact in some way. They usually phrase it "slide or avoid collision." In the last 20 years or so, I haven't run into a youth league (under 18) that just lets the runner crash the fielder with immunity.

I agree, most local leagues have some form of malicious contact rule that they added on top of the Charter/Franchise (ie Babe Ruth Baseball) rules. If you take a team off to a District tournament all the local rules are bye-bye and you play by Charter/Franchise rules. Babe Ruth Baseball didn't even have a malicious contact rule until the early 90's and I hope I had something to do with that because I sent two very graphic videos of crashes at the plate, with 10 and 11 year olds. Even now the malicious contact rule specifically mentions the plate, but not any other bases.

But very few have written a FPSR into their local league rules, in fact none I have been involved with. The only ones that have it are ones that play FED.