When did they change the balk rule?

[johnnyg08]

it's hard to restrain sometimes...but it's not a good idea to bait, then eject.

[UMP25]

I have no reservations about what I said to him. Yes, I'm a veteran umpire, and yes, occasionally I may use some sarcasm in my responses to head coaches in order to get my point across.

[johnnyg08]

obviously it's your choice to choose that style.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

obviously it's your choice to choose that style.

Indeed it was, and I've never had problems with it. I average about 5 ejections per year out of some 150+ games. Last year I had 3 for the whole year, spring college and summer college combined. This year I had 3 for my spring. None of them were my fault.

A head coach who bolts out of the dugout to scream at me about a balk call is going to get ejected regardless of whether I ask him if I'm supposed to check the runners' positions before I call a balk.

I love the sanctimony of a few folks here. No one's perfect, of course, but I've never had a problem where game management has been concerned.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Indeed it was, and I've never had problems with it. I average about 5 ejections per year out of some 150+ games. Last year I had 3 for the whole year, spring college and summer college combined. This year I had 3 for my spring. None of them were my fault.

A head coach who bolts out of the dugout to scream at me about a balk call is going to get ejected regardless of whether I ask him if I'm supposed to check the runners' positions before I call a balk.

I love the sanctimony of a few folks here. No one's perfect, of course, but I've never had a problem where game management has been concerned.

Agreed. Some coaches just need runnin', and baiting them a little is a long-standing tradition and art form that the modern umpire eschews in favor of being "niiiiiiice." Screw that.

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Agreed. Some coaches just need runnin', and baiting them a little is a long-standing tradition and art form that the modern umpire eschews in favor of being "niiiiiiice." Screw that.

Well, yes, some folks need runnin', just like some folks need killin', but let them run themselves.

And I don't think it's about being 'niiiiiiice' for the 'modern umpire.' It's about being a professional. Look, I'm not in the aforementioned Internet Umpire Forum Inner Sanctum(tm) (IUFIS in future postings), and I haven't worked a real college game, nor have I hit 1,000 games, never mind multi-thousands. But I'm trying to take it, and my games, seriously. And for what it's worth, I'm an '08 JEA grad, and we weren't taught to bait, and get the last word, and all that. They were teaching professionalism, even if the guys in the dugouts aren't. So that's where I approach it from.

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by UMP25

A head coach who bolts out of the dugout to scream at me about a balk call is going to get ejected regardless of whether I ask him if I'm supposed to check the runners' positions before I call a balk.

That's new information, then. I know the OP said you turned and the HC was already there, but now it's clarified that he came roaring out. And that he's screaming. (Not trying to be pedantic, but you seem to have detailed it more at this point.)

I love the sanctimony of a few folks here. No one's perfect, of course, but I've never had a problem where game management has been concerned.

I'm hoping that wasn't directed at my query, although I realize I started the sh!tstorm here. I'm not asking about your game mgmt, and I don't think I was being sanctimonious. When I read the OP, I just felt "that didn't seem right to me," and that it read as though you baited him into that. Sure, he swore at you, so you ran him. But don't you think your responses from the start channeled his Force/karma/ki right into the EJ? I do. And I'm not alone, either. It's not as simple as your latest post: "I asked him under which situations it is acceptable to call one." I'm sure that's what the EJ report read, but still.

(And isn't more swearing allowed the older/higher level it goes? Or is the NCAA like high school about it?)

And my original point is: if one of us, that haven't been accepted into the Internet Forum Umpire Inner Sanctum, told that same story as posted, we'd be ripped 7 ways to Sunday for it, because we baited the HC. And we'd get told how we'll never work above middle school, or some other d@mn thing, and how we needed to work on our game management.

So maybe as a successful college umpire, you'd consider taking that on board.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by HokieUmp

That's new information, then. I know the OP said you turned and the HC was already there, but now it's clarified that he came roaring out. And that he's screaming. (Not trying to be pedantic, but you seem to have detailed it more at this point.)

You're not being pedantic. I probably neglected to specify it and did so in follow-up posts. Yes, I turned and found him at the dirt area of home plate, but this was because he had bolted out of the dugout to get there and begin his yelling at me.

I'm hoping that wasn't directed at my query, although I realize I started the sh!tstorm here. I'm not asking about your game mgmt, and I don't think I was being sanctimonious. When I read the OP, I just felt "that didn't seem right to me," and that it read as though you baited him into that. Sure, he swore at you, so you ran him. But don't you think your responses from the start channeled his Force/karma/ki right into the EJ? I do. And I'm not alone, either. It's not as simple as your latest post: "I asked him under which situations it is acceptable to call one." I'm sure that's what the EJ report read, but still.

(And isn't more swearing allowed the older/higher level it goes? Or is the NCAA like high school about it?)

And my original point is: if one of us, that haven't been accepted into the Internet Forum Umpire Inner Sanctum, told that same story as posted, we'd be ripped 7 ways to Sunday for it, because we baited the HC. And we'd get told how we'll never work above middle school, or some other d@mn thing, and how we needed to work on our game management.

So maybe as a successful college umpire, you'd consider taking that on board.

I'd prefer not to take on a board as you mention. I may offer advice to some here or elsewhere, but I choose to not rip people apart as being unprofessional, and I choose to not degrade people to imply that they're terrible umpires and I'm somehow the world's greatest. I'm not; I'm human. I have been successful at what I do, and I'd like to think one reason, among others, is that I continually work to tweak or improve things, adopt to new things, and more.

BTW, yes, I included on the umpire's report exactly what was said by the head coach and me and what led up to it. The conference and/or school will handle it. It's not like it's considered a major incident, fortunately.

[DonInKansas]

Originally Posted by UMP25

"So many"? Who knew that a mere two (and both coaches this year just happened to be coaches who were very frustrated with their teams' performances, each coming off lengthy losing streaks*) in the last 4+ years would be "a lot"? I see mathematics wasn't your strong suit either.

Originally Posted by UMP25

Indeed it was, and I've never had problems with it. I average about 5 ejections per year out of some 150+ games. Last year I had 3 for the whole year, spring college and summer college combined. This year I had 3 for my spring. None of them were my fault.

Please make up your mind how many ejections you are making.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by DonInKansas

Please make up your mind how many ejections you are making.

My original statements are correct. I've had two head coaches in 4+ years. The other ejections were players.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by UMP25

I have no reservations about what I said to him. Yes, I'm a veteran umpire, and yes, occasionally I may use some sarcasm in my responses to head coaches in order to get my point across.

If you say the stuff you said to him, then you baited him into it, and it's not professional. Everyone has a job to do, and when a coach overdoes his, it's bad for the game. The same is true when one of us overdoes our job. It's not an acceptable practice. It was way too much talking even if it was appropriate. But it was inappropriate.

I have a few things in my game that I am proud of, and my zero coach ejections is one of them. All of my ejections are of players and they were for malicious contact (6), or unsportsmanlike conduct (2). It's that way, because nothing I say or do while emotions are running high makes the situation get worse. I let the blood cool, and then we have a conversation, and I win and the coach goes away and the game goes on. I am as sarcastic or as blunt as most, but not when I assume the role of umpire. When I assume that role, for the good of the game, I compromise my personality in favor of a game that features the players, and not the coaches or the umpires.

[GoodwillRef]

I am working a college conference tournament this past weekend in Green Bay, WI, and in middle of the 9th inning (storm clouds rolling in) get really dark and my first base umpire comes in and asked if I can have the lights turned on he is having a hard time seeing, usually do this at the start of an inning but we have to be able to see the ball. I have the home team (down by 3 runs at this time) turn the lights on. The visiting coach goes crazy yelling at me, "In the middle of an inning?" I replied "Coach I asked them to turn them on...you also want to be able to see fly balls and pop ups...don't you?" They calm down a bit. Bottom of 9th...first batter grounds out...new pitcher and new third baseman. First pitch the batter hits a foul popup behind third about a mile high and the SS runs about 25 yards to make the catch...maybe he doesn't see it without the lights on. Next batter hit another pop up on the infield a mile high and the SS catches it and they win the conference tournament. Coaches will argue just about anything!

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Coaches will argue just about anything!

If we let them. Our game management skills come into play here. Which in my opinion is just another piece of what separates a great umpire from just an ump.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by HokieUmp

he should be a football ...coach.

He won't get any situational favortism in my games! Neither did Jake Locker from a certain Pac-10 crew this past year.

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I have a few things in my game that I am proud of, and my zero coach ejections is one of them.

Nice if you can get it but not all of us are that fortunate. I haven't ejected many coaches/managers but the ones I have all deserved it. I definitely didn't bait any of them into acting like idiots on the field.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I definitely didn't bait any of them into acting like idiots on the field.

Oftentimes that's not necessary, for they can act like that quite easily.