FED - Force Play Slide Rule

[DG]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

The umpire would have to say that the wild throw and the runner's attempt to take out the pivot man were not related. It was just a bad throw having absolutely nothing to do with the runner sliding into 2nd. Although I can see that being a possibility - I don't think I would want to go there.

Make the above call and I guarantee you'll end up having to eject the defensive manager.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

I would rather call the FPSR, evidence that play was altered is the bad throw, and eject the offensive manager if he wants to be ejected, instead of rewarding him for teaching his players to play illegally.

I can also see a bad throw being a possibility without INT but altered throws due to runners sliding illegally generally are awkard looking from the start. Picture this, F4 jumps in the air to avoid runner sliding illegally at him and makes a bad throw. I am NOT rewarding the offense for this illegal activity.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by DG

evidence that play was altered is the bad throw

Wrong, but you seem to correct yourself...

Originally Posted by DG

I can also see a bad throw being a possibility without INT but altered throws due to runners sliding illegally generally are awkard looking from the start. Picture this, F4 jumps in the air to avoid runner sliding illegally at him and makes a bad throw.

Then you have an altered play, and you can justify the INT call.

[DG]

We are judge of whether play was altered, but slide toward the fielder is clearly illegal, so judge on the side of penalizing illegal if there is any question about it.

As a friend once told me about a balk he called, coach complained because he said he teaches him that move - well coach, don't blame me when I catch him doing something illegal you taught him.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jicecone

No FED 8.4.2.b2 " Runners are never required to slide, but if a runner elects to slide, the slide must be legal.

A runner can stay upright as long as he makes no attempt to alter the play.

I agree that's what the rule says, but I read it as "if he slides it must be legal; if he doesn't slide, he must run in a direction away from the play."

Again, this has been discussed many times, and no clarification from the FED (other than the one interp several years ago where R1 was "lesss than halfway" to second when he was hit by a throw.)

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by jicecone

A runner can stay upright as long as he makes no attempt to alter the play.

Be careful here: the rule sets a much higher standard that what you suggest. The relevant rule for interference when a runner does not slide is 8-4-2(b):

Originally Posted by rule book

(Any runner is out for interference when he ...) does not legally slide and causes illegal contact and/or illegally alters the actions of a fielder in the immediate act of making a play

Here are 3 distinct standards:

1. Runner must make no attempt to alter the play.
2. Runner must attempt to avoid altering the play.
3. Runner must avoid altering the play.

The first two concern what the runner is trying to do. The rule says nothing about what the runner is trying to do. If he makes illegal contact or illegally alters the play, then he is guilty of interference, whether he was attempting to alter the play or attempting to avoid the fielder.

In other words, the third standard applies: he must successfully avoid altering the play.

Bob referred to the definition of an illegal slide. Here it is:

Originally Posted by rule book

ART. 2 . . . A slide is illegal if:
a. the runner uses a rolling, cross-body or pop-up slide into the fielder, or
b. the runner’s raised leg is higher than the fielder’s knee when the fielder is
in a standing position, or
c. the runner goes beyond the base and then makes contact with or alters the
play of the fielder, or
d. the runner slashes or kicks the fielder with either leg, or
e. the runner tries to injure the fielder, or
f. the runner, on a force play, does not slide on the ground and in a direct line
between the two bases.

Bob pointed out that clause (c) refers to making contact; clause (f) does not, nor does it even refer to altering the play.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I agree that's what the rule says, but I read it as "if he slides it must be legal; if he doesn't slide, he must run in a direction away from the play."

Again, this has been discussed many times, and no clarification from the FED (other than the one interp several years ago where R1 was "lesss than halfway" to second when he was hit by a throw.)

Bob, I didn't write the rule and I really don't care if the runner disappears in thin air, slides, runs the other way or maliciously contacts the fielder. If he slides, it better be legal, if not, he better not alter the play.

But, if you and others have a problem with the way the rule is written, then your problem is with NFHS, again I didn't write it.